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Post by Tarbal on Aug 4, 2006 14:29:22 GMT -5
or maybe implement some new constructables or zones with killer eq to replace the DOOM eq.....but spread it out all over the mud....let some newer builders put some killer eq in their zones to wet the appetites of those who only wanna run a zone if it has kick ass gear in it....imagine how many people would run through arcadia for a chance at "bunny's pink collar" if it were a 2dam item....anyways.....just an idea....
oo oo....or even make some quest eq that is along the lines of DOOM gear to replace it....then the eq will still be there....and you will have to do a quest to get it....instead of a quest zone....
mike
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Post by markain on Aug 4, 2006 17:39:46 GMT -5
Heh, I cant say as I know a whole hell of a lot about this zone, but back when I was part of the people running it with cleric/rangers I noticed a few things that make this zone even more appealing for group running. There were safe rooms on some of the levels, if you got the keys to load. Now I know one of the big turn offs for the zone is the multitude of mobs with little chances for regen, but just those few floors with safe rooms come in handy. I dont think these rooms were intended to be safe rooms, just something to distract the thorough explorer, but they can be used as such. Im not even sure if the keys still load for said rooms, or if they are still even locked as I havent even set foot in DOOM in a LONG time, but if their still there that could help immensely.
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umi
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Post by umi on Sept 20, 2006 15:17:19 GMT -5
Wow so no one has posted here since 2005. That is kind of sad. Ever since these posts, doom has undergone one humungous change and it is not a secret anymore that the entire zone is now !gate. That's right, mages cannot gate in there anymore. At first I didn't like this because it made it seem impossible, but on the contrary, it has just made me alot more versatile in my techniques. I would like to know who is in charge of DOOM currently and what, if anything, is being done in there. And just to add a little fire to this thread to reignite it, here's a situation: You have a room with only one exit and there are two lizardmen in this room that block you from getting back out of that only exit. There are 4 minotaurs in the room as well, and nothing can leave because the lizards are blocking and that is the reason the room is so packed. The room is !magic, so you cannot use wod or any mage spells on them, and there is another mob in the room that has a piece of eq on them. Also, there are a couple nymphs taht can remove all your spells, and a few oozes that are nothing important most of the time. How do you handle this situation to get the eq you want? (The eq'd mob purges pets so its not that simple ) just as an explanation, this room would drop a -200 ac sanc'd char around 200 hp if they got hit when they walked in on the first round. Go for it P.S. Also waiting for a reply on who's in charge atm. If you're talking about the armlet cleric room on the X level, you're overlooking a whole bunch of stuff.
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Post by cunanan on Sept 24, 2006 10:39:35 GMT -5
I haven't run DOOM to much, but I understand the idea behind it. DOOM is more of an extension of our regular gear, for the 'elite's' who want to run it. DOOM is much harder with the !gate system, but it was very easily exploited with someone who ran 20 mages...it makes it a bit harder and brings us together to help out whenever something does load.
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Post by Maranta on Sept 24, 2006 18:15:36 GMT -5
I haven't run DOOM to much, but I understand the idea behind it. DOOM is more of an extension of our regular gear, for the 'elite's' who want to run it. DOOM is much harder with the !gate system, but it was very easily exploited with someone who ran 20 mages...it makes it a bit harder and brings us together to help out whenever something does load. Actually while making the entire zone !gate has minorly handicapped the mages, its still a mage run area just now with clerics to summon in the mages. In the end, it has changed very little as people still have to band together as they did before to finish the final !magic rooms and their mighty occupants. Adding more and more difficulty to obtaining the items isn't going to encourage runners, hell I can only imagine the vast amounts of DOOM gear stashed away or forgotten on various chars. People ran it in large groups in the 'golden days' because it was, and so many people have stated this without certain people taking note, FUN! It took hours, yielded mountains of uber-useful gold and had the potential for the powerful equipment still in use today. If you didn't find anything, you still had a good time with your friends and rivals alike and paid for your rent for half a year. Adding a 'challenge' from an immortal perspective serves no other point except to prove you can. -Maranta
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Post by Arizhel on Sept 30, 2006 17:43:19 GMT -5
You know, I don't agree with Maranta all that often, but this is one definite exception. Mark the day on your calendars, folks. ;D I can remember having a great time running DOOM with groups that were usually running four rangers and one cleric. The cleric to summon rangers when they got into a hopeless jam, and to spell them up so they wouldn't get mercilessly battered quite so quickly, and the rangers to... well, batter things into the floors of the Featureless Hallways with mobs of pets. One or two memorable times had two clerics and eight or nine rangers. Talk about a hell of a time. It was a bloody riot is what it was. We ended up having to split the group up into two groups, because of constant crossing of group order triggers. Hah. I'd get a tell to grouporder RangerX leader, only ClericY or RangerZ was already the leader. Good times, I tell you. Good freakin times. Those were some of the best times I ever had on Jedi, in fact. I have to admit that the single most memorable time in DOOM was when an extraordinarily sneaky lizardman managed to get back to where the cleric was standing. (It can be done - I gave one of our other clerics a heart attack by scanning him once from deep inside the pyramid, when I was playing ranger. ) That cleric was me. I about had a coronary when I saw the thing hit me. What did I do? I ran like my buns were on fire, I tell you what, and then summoned two rangers to dispose of the thing properly. But that doesn't happen now. Who cares if a naked mage dies? Really. Even if a throwaway ranger died, there was a sense of loss, a sense of urgency to get that equipment back and keep on slaughtering until you found the big Cotton Man himself, along with his intrepid apprentice Bob. It was even more fun when people had to compete for the one key off of crash. Sometimes things would go wrong just when you thought you had the key. Sometimes the other guy would help you, then. Sometimes the other guy would screw you without a second thought. You never ever knew what DOOM was going to bring. Hell, I remember finding a crashbug with skins by being the first to the DOOM key three times in a row, skinning a pouch for the key, hiding it, then camo'ing it, which promptly crashed the MUD. The third time was what made me a little suspicious. In any case... I don't even bother with DOOM now, even when I do play. It's just not worth it to me. I don't think barraging it with a bunch of naked spellcasters is fun, and so I choose to avoid it. It's not even because I have all the DOOM gear I could possibly use - far from it. I've got my fair share, but one can always use more, I suppose. In any case... I don't play with it these days, with the lone exception of helping out at the top once in a blue moon. That's just my 35 pesos worth. Wait, after the exchange rate, I'm pretty sure 35 pesos isn't worth two cents. Doh.
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Soul
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Post by Soul on Jun 27, 2007 3:58:11 GMT -5
LOL yeah... those were the good old days. But now were all old and grey with bills to pay
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Post by gambler on Jun 27, 2007 19:57:47 GMT -5
We all have the capacity to adapt. Doom is as easy as its every been despite tweaking. If this post strikes a nerve for 'someone' to change it, that just makes it easier for the top dogs to own it even more. As far as old and grey.... who the hell are you referring to??? Too old to punch a keyboard and keep enough focus to grind out a few hours of entertainment with some fellow mudders? I didn't think fingers and 'brains' gave out until you hit the upper 80's. You can still work it in and have some enjoyment without having to drop a massive amount of hours on it. I'll see you when the game's back up for doom sessions....
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Post by Maranta on Jun 27, 2007 20:32:43 GMT -5
Thats the funny thing about DOOM. For every change, a new method emerges. When you look at it, the more it gets altered, the less people play in there. Well aside from that whole 'make the entire zone sticky' idea that was tried for a brief time.
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Post by Tarbal on Oct 30, 2007 18:17:52 GMT -5
wouldn't it be nice if someone designed a zone that rivals DOOM in complexity and difficulty? and maybe this should go back to the perpetual gauntlet thread that is elsewhere on the mud....but doom is getting kinda old, dont ya think? someone should come up with another innovative zone idea that would challenge the masses....maybe make a doom like zone....that is all !magic with the empty, 1 minute reset time....i am sure warrior/paladin groups would like that.....
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Post by Maranta on Oct 30, 2007 19:01:20 GMT -5
Yeah then you need to actually have someone design a zone who can tolerate all the assinine hoops they'd need to jump through just to have it looked at, let alone approved. Thats what drove off 99% of the developers in the first place!
If DOOM has gotten old maybe its because all the changes to it in the past years have been directed at a few specific morts instead of the general population. Its the whole "challenge" bullcrap over and over again. The same thing will be forced upon a new zone, moreso if anything worthwhile is put in it and regardless of what the author thinks.
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Post by Tarbal on Oct 30, 2007 20:00:09 GMT -5
but no matter what zone is put in, no matter what challenges are set up, no matter how hard the mobs are, and no matter how difficult a zone is, someone will always find a way to run it. and since there are very few people in the game that are willing to undergo such a challenge, and even less that have the tactical know-how to overcome said challenge, those few people will always be the ones that manage to pwn that zone. and of course, everyone will blame those few for using their smarts and say that they are abusing one skill set or another to accomplish their goal. i dont know the first thing about running scipio, but i will not talk trash to the guys who spent hours in there learning the nuances of the zone and can now run it with their eyes closed. GOOD FOR THEM!!!!! if someone learns the best way to run a zone, let them do it! don't cry because you were not smart enough to see your errors when writing the zone that allowed a few people to go in and out as they please! ok....i need a cigarette.....
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Post by Maranta on Oct 30, 2007 21:25:43 GMT -5
This is true... but you see things from a different point, even if its the right one. Unfortunately for the mud, you're not an admin member capable of realizing these things and acting on them.
I'm not saying adding challenging new zones is a bad thing, it's not. But when someone specifically adds to the difficulty level of anything solely attempting to hamper a select few players, then things get pretty screwed up around here. Every single time this has occured, the mud lost a considerable amount of its playerbase. Older players have noticed but not everyone takes the time to look around and realise there is a lot more free sand in this box than there used to be and we're not better off for the extra room.
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Post by Tarbal on Nov 4, 2007 17:36:17 GMT -5
so what do you do? make a zone a challenge for MOST players, and just accept the fact that a select few will be able to run the same zone with ease? or tailor the zone so that even the top players in the game would have a nearly impossible time running it (Mantra gauntlet)? either way, i dont think we can make everyone happy! some people will meanie that a zone that is hard for most of the playerbase, but easy for the top mudders should not load really good eq, and people will cry that the zone that is nearly impossible is too hard for the average player and is suited only for the top mudders and favors them and them alone. there is no happy medium.....i say we just do a PWIPE and put everyone on the same playing field!!! (that is a joke....dont do it...please)
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Post by Maranta on Nov 4, 2007 18:23:14 GMT -5
Thats just it, you don't do anything different. The top players are at the top for a reason, not just their gear. They have the knowledge, the experience and the competitive spirit. If you spend all your time trying to hamper them, you ruin the game for everyone else. Regardless of what you do, they'll still be at the top. That goes for pwipes too. Remember what I said about adding "challenge" to screw a few people? It comes with a massive cost to the pfile each and every single time. Joke or not, it'd be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
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Post by gambler on Dec 27, 2007 9:27:53 GMT -5
The solution to the aforementioned problems are complex, but doable. The game really needs a vibrant visionary to drop in some new zones and new ideas. The approval process must be tweaked, but the testing process needs to be tightened. If you have a big enough pinata with ENOUGH candy then everyone gets a piece when the pinata bursts.
Regarding doom though:
Most of the people that say DOOM is hard have not ran it at all!! They have been scared by oldschool horror stories of people losing everything they have in there in attempts just to check and see if something might be loaded. I know that I and others have offered on several occasions to show people a bit about DOOM and get them started (if the interest was there). People in general just aren't that patient. If the zone itself was resetable, (even if only once per day) I think people would be more encouraged to explore. The whole thing about getting locked away from your corpses at the top and having to put total trust in a stranger to cleric for you is daunting though. Keep DOOM as intricate and tough as it is without the riduculous penalties and people will venture in.
Gambler.
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Post by Maranta on Dec 27, 2007 16:18:34 GMT -5
It always comes down to having things run differently. A visionary would be ideal, as long as the vision isn't another personal sandbox with less than a dozen people on at normal hours. Not to mention someone who actually wants new zones. Almost no one is writing zones any more after the last 50 got "lost" or instantly turned down with the most unreasonable justification. After all, there are only so many item and minor additions that can be added before we run out of room for expansion. Still I'd bet my ice axe that the game could double in size in a month with only a handful of new staff who want to let the game grow as opposed to pretending such and denying any major changes such as other people have continued to do.
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Mal
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Post by Mal on Dec 17, 2008 21:59:50 GMT -5
The reality is, a true challenging quest zone, what DOOM was meant to be, requires an administrator constantly changing it and making it that way. Mobs, EQ, rooms, etc change so by the time you figure everything out it becomes something different and new, with its own set of challenges. This is what DOOM was meant to be. To accomplish this, you quite frankly need a coder who has time to toss in a few tricks for you into the code, and a pool of creativity to draw from for ways to use what's available in a creative and challenging way. These resources that could be pooled into making DOOM into a real quest zone would be better spent on class revisions and a multitude of other issues facing JediMUD.
If DOOM was properly managed, being 'constantly changing' it would give opportunity to both 'elite' and 'average mudder' to play in it. Figuring out the challenges laid by the administrator over DOOM would be the tough challenge, be it a creative set of mobs, needing components outside of the DOOM zone to make something to pass onto the next part, etc. Equipment from a quest zone of this short should max out at around 1 to 4 pieces in the database. This shouldn't be a problem, because once the max is achieved the zone can change and filled with new challenges.
You can add other road blocks to DOOM to make it more dangerous, for instance, dying in DOOM with a char who is at max deaths results in perma death. This will put an end for the most part, to naked mages squading, and gives the opportunity for a mob to be killable by magic (which is only fair not to exclude all combat-magic classes from fighting - like Sohei). All mobs who have mem cannot be backstabbed by someone they remember hitting them, circling of course should be perfectly fine. (and with the max death in place, again discourages this route)
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Mal
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Post by Mal on Jan 5, 2009 21:41:52 GMT -5
Well since everyone seems to agree with me, or has no oppinion, or does not care enough to put up a defense, maybe its time we retire DOOM?
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antrus
Junior Member
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Post by antrus on Jan 6, 2009 0:00:46 GMT -5
Well since everyone seems to agree with me, or has no oppinion, or does not care enough to put up a defense, maybe its time we retire DOOM? Or let the people who enjoy running it, run it, and the people that don't like running it or learning it, stay away from it.
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eniac
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Post by eniac on Jan 6, 2009 10:03:15 GMT -5
Mal,
What is your argument for closing DOOM? All I saw was that it wasn't being properly maintained (hardly a reason for closing a zone)
~e
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Post by Tarbal on Jan 6, 2009 11:51:21 GMT -5
I am not going to say that I have experience in DOOM, I have been in there....i have helped kill the bigger mobs...and i have helped check it for loads...but i do not know the zone up and down like some people do...so...now that i have voiced my experience...allow me to voice my thoughts....
if my understandin of DOOM is correct, it should be a perpetually changing zone....like mal said, once (if) you figure it out...it should be changed....the eq there should be EXTREMELY limited....(1 -4 in database)...with the new load on death changes, this could be EASILY managed....it should be hard...not something that 1 or 2 people should be able to go check...if you want to check DOOM loads...then get a nice group (4-5 uber chars) and pray you dont lose your eq....so anyways....
i do not think that closing/removing the zone is the right answer....i think that modifiying the zone to meet the original intent is what needs to be done here.....again...just my personal opinion....if anyone cares
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eniac
Junior Member
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Post by eniac on Jan 6, 2009 12:05:20 GMT -5
The zone is always changing... every up time. The problem is that the possible permutations have been figured out. I think adding new gates into the rotation would do wonders. But closing the zone is not a viable solution to the problem.
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Post by Tarbal on Jan 6, 2009 12:10:20 GMT -5
i dont think that even the changing gates is enough...the zone needs mob/eq changes....change the properties of some of the rooms (!magic, etc)...change how you get from one area of the zone to the next (maybe a locked door with a key carried by a knight instead of using a gate)....there are infinite possiblities of things that can be done....
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eniac
Junior Member
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Post by eniac on Jan 6, 2009 12:52:21 GMT -5
On another note also I was thinking how several have suggested that 1-4 of an item is loaded then it gets rotated out.... That would be require a lot of maintenance. I would prefer to see X part of a zone available for a few months regardless of how many of an item load and then see X phase out.
Perhaps make the next holiday quest have a gate somewhere in doom? or be a section of doom?
e
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