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Post by DaHart85 on Nov 18, 2008 9:56:32 GMT -5
And I hope these at least get voted on relatively soon, if nothing else, rather than getting talked into the ground. They are fixes that would take a good coder, like the one we have, very little time and headache :-)
FIX BACKSTAB - As a T30 with 5 remorts and 23dex, I still can't kill the NT High Priest or NT Elite Guards in a single backstab without a high roll. 21dex should raise the current multiplier by 1 (x6 at T30 would become x7, etc). 25dex should raise the current multiplier by 2 (x6 would become x8)
FIX BACKSTAB/CIRCLE LAG - Raise the %s on a 2-round backstab, the current %s are a waste of time hitting 1 in 20. If soloing, you may only get 1 chance at a 2-rounder per fight, adjust % accordingly. 18dex should be 5%, 19dex 10%, 21dex 15%, 23dex 20%, 25dex 25%.
CIRCLE MOD - Make it so you can circle while tanking. If I'm that skilled, it shouldn't matter whether he knows to attack me, I will still get around behind him thanks to my DEXTERITY. That and it makes it more feasible to solo something worth some exp besides just one hit.
THIEF PFG - Ninjas and Thieves should both receive a skill that enables the PFG/PFE/PFN procs (for simple modification) because let's face it, that's their job: Hide in the shadows unnoticed even by pissed off mobs. Could even make this a permanent advantage of just being above level 15 in either of these classes. Possibly a toggle skill?
Craftsmanship would be used to build something like a booby trap that you start a fight by using on a mob. Grab these 5 parts, assemble trap, use trap mob, just like a wand. This one I'm not too antsy on, just a random idea.
If you have any questions/comments, feel free to contact me on Sand or any of the SWANK/SHIV chars. And push your local admin to at least vote on the ideas! ;-)
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Post by osmium on Nov 18, 2008 16:37:03 GMT -5
The only thing I disagree with is circle while tanking. Circle assumes your opponent is more focused on the tank than you.
If you are the mob's focus, it doesn't matter what your dex is. He's not gonna turn his back on you, nor allow you to slip behind him.
Think Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Roberto Duran. Ray could dance circles around Duran, but no way he could have gotten behind him without Duran knowing.
Now, a distraction skill which, if successful, might allow a single circle might have merit.
Other than that, I like the suggestions.
Os
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Post by Dank on Nov 19, 2008 4:06:27 GMT -5
I guess when I think of class balance, I think of how a particular class might fit into a group going into battle against a big mob.
For example, the following classes could be loosely classed based on their inherent skills in this manner:
Scouts: Ranger, Thief
Debuffers: Bard, Ranger
Healers: Cleric (Paladin, Anti-Paladin)
Tanks: Warrior, Jedi, (Thief, Paladin, Anti-Paladin)
Grapplers: Warrior, Ranger
Prevent Slam: Ninja
Magic Tricks and Refreshments: Mage, Sohei
I think that Sand's fixes above will address the thief's combat abilities. Don't stop there, though. Let's address the thief's secondary ability - Scout. I think that the proposed nohassle/hidden mod would go far in establishing a thief as any party's pre-eminent scout.
Failing a sneak/hide-->nohassle mod, adding a mass pfe/pfg/pfn skill for hide/sneak would work, too.
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Post by ching on Nov 24, 2008 0:29:56 GMT -5
I have always thought sneak/hide should work against agro mobs. Or at least a % chance (maybe even a max of 80% so even at T30 with 25dex you have a 20% chance to be whacked.) That would allow a thief to reasonably scout most mobs. Of course ANY moving (including drink/eat) would ruin your hide. So you should plan ahead of time, and could not just camp on a mob 'safely' indefinitely.
At first I liked the Idea of a thief being able to go past a blocking mob. However with the mage directed teleport and gate, that would invalidate the whole blocker concept.
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Mal
Full Member
Posts: 231
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Post by Mal on Dec 9, 2008 15:47:17 GMT -5
I personally would like to see thieves being able to dodge as a ranger, as well as dodge magic spells, and somewhat dodge area spells.
Thieves should be able to change tanks with someone from his group during combat. This would allow a group of 2, say Thief / Ninja, to have the thief backstab and tank for a few rounds, then the thief can hide behind the Ninja who now tanks, and then circle him to death.
As for circle during tanking, I am afraid I will have to stand against that, circle is already more powerful then dhit. However, thieves should have some skills (like dodge) to use while tanking, they should not be helpless like a mage without mana. They fight dirty, throwing dirt in their opponents eyes, kicking them where the sun don't shine, throwing poisoned daggers...
Aaron
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Post by ching on Dec 11, 2008 12:03:22 GMT -5
The poison dagger is a nice idea. I do not think the thief could get 'poison' as a spell, but maybe they could assemble a device which could do that? or assemble a 'wand' which is thief only which would poison a mob.
An other possibility is 'cut throat' only to start a battle, or outside of combat completely (eg mob has to be not fighting as well) which reduces regen, or even bleeds out slowly for a while?)
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Post by Tarbal on Jan 4, 2009 8:39:33 GMT -5
how about a thief skill...well...a revision of a current skill....that allows a thief to 'sneak' past a blocking type mob? just another idea....
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Post by Maranta on Jan 10, 2009 23:05:20 GMT -5
Getting back to the poisoned dagger idea, this would be another great reason to add elemental properties to weapons. Granted just about every MMO has poisoned weapons but they could easily be used as an assembly item on Jedi. It would take very little work to add the poisons and finished weapons, the only code work needed would be the actual elemental additions, should they be approved.
A thief would only need to gather the required items, combine them with their weapon of choice or holdable of choice(a dagger or other edged weapon)and you get an additional poison damage per hit. And if someone upstairs is concerned about overpowering, limit it to the weapon slot and/or require the thief to pay a sizeable fee to a craftsman to have his weapon permanently imbued with the poison.
Hell, while we're at it, make a few different kinds of poison. Increased damage, chance to stun, chance to blind, cause paralysis... lots to choose from really. The deadlier the poison, the harder it is to find the ingredients and the costlier it is to have that particular poison placed on a weapon. To keep things from getting out of hand, limit it 1 poison per weapon. Now if some thief wants to juggle 5 different daggers to apply multiple effects, thats his choice but at least he had to work for every one of them and pay too.
-Mar
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Rox
Full Member
Posts: 195
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Post by Rox on Jan 10, 2009 23:22:10 GMT -5
Hmmm...that may make me break out of my bard shell to try something new...maybe a thief  |
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Post by Tarbal on Jan 11, 2009 6:46:04 GMT -5
hmmm....2 things for right now.....
1) i guess we could make a 'poison dart' which would essentially be a thief only wand that casts poison on a mob....
2) i have been informed that my idea on sneaking past blocking mobs would not be a good idea because it would break several zones that use blockers....ok....i guess i can accept that....
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Post by Dank on Jan 11, 2009 13:58:45 GMT -5
hmmm....2 things for right now..... 1) i guess we could make a 'poison dart' which would essentially be a thief only wand that casts poison on a mob.... Unfortunately, the way that 'poison' is imp'd here is just a negation to hp regen/qhealing on mobs. Instead of the poison spell, perhaps we'd want to bind it with the plague spell affect/proc instead. That actually does something useful with regard to a poisoned dagger. |
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Post by Maranta on Jan 11, 2009 16:09:03 GMT -5
Only downside to the plague spell is it'd actually be capable of killing a mob, albeit gradually since they heal on the tic. Not to mention it wouldn't affect their mana or moves like it does players since mobs don't rely on either to cast or move.
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Post by Dank on Jan 11, 2009 22:05:23 GMT -5
Only downside to the plague spell is it'd actually be capable of killing a mob, albeit gradually since they heal on the tic. Not to mention it wouldn't affect their mana or moves like it does players since mobs don't rely on either to cast or move. You know, I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but when I'm plagued under 0 (hp or mana) I never die! I've been at -200 hp -1000+ mana etc. until I get a restore. Regen gets massively hosed (since plague can affect any or all of the regen factors negatively) but otherwise, death never comes. |
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Post by Maranta on Jan 11, 2009 22:35:06 GMT -5
Okay so massively mortally wounded and left for dead. Would still have the same effect of allowing for a quick, one-hit finishing blow for far too easy experience. Imagine having a suicidal thief with a plague dagger attack a mob like Ogaan, wait 10 tics for plague to decimate him then waltz in and a single backstab drops him. As fun as that'd be, it leaves something to the challenge element.
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Post by Dank on Jan 11, 2009 22:46:33 GMT -5
how about -10%hpR then for say, 2-6 hours? something that might approximate a poison hit, but wouldn't, in itself, kill the mob, due to the fact that the mob would be able to get "healed" within a certain random amount of time (based on poison type).
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Post by Maranta on Jan 11, 2009 23:23:02 GMT -5
How long will the combat actually take though? Mobs heal on the tic, not counting qheal or pzar maximus, so a minor reduction in their regeneration probably wouldn't do much or even be noticed. Still if something along these lines can be implemented, it'd be interesting to see what thieves would do with them.
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Post by Dank on Jan 12, 2009 19:30:37 GMT -5
How long will the combat actually take though? Mobs heal on the tic, not counting qheal or pzar maximus, so a minor reduction in their regeneration probably wouldn't do much or even be noticed. Yeah, I think if you could balance this effect to do as much damage as, say, an OBLIT for 10-12 rounds, it might be good for mid-level lowbie group exping. But you're right, without some bite, it'd be yet another worthless feature. |
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