Post by cordelia on Aug 25, 2008 11:11:44 GMT -5
After a 'heated' discussion on gossip today on this much maligned zone, handicapped by the existing remort policy, let's throw in some of the discussion over the years:
Discuss:
- remort policy
- alternatives
- removal of zone
Did someone simply use a text editor to cut and paste ten thousand identical rooms into this giant Walmart of immersive role-playing experience? Sheesh. If it weren't simply a sad pasture for perfect remorts who have nowhere to go with the overpopulation of the main towns, Arcadia might make a higher spot on the Worst Zone list. Fix the autoexit flags and round up all of the silly cats and put them in Arizhel's God Room.
Please, please get rid of the annoying gem signs. Add the Sanctuary City, Hellas or Valhalla wandering mobs and their procs and make this place a semi-interesting one to visit.
-- Dank
Re: Arcadia
The idea behind the city was a sound one but it got really turned around along the way. First of all, enable the auto-exits in the rooms so people can actually see where they're going, its meant to be a friendly town afterall. Secondly, improve access to the town. The northwest gate into the city isn't even complete, it just deadends with no reason as does part of the cobblestone path so the two could easily be connected. Also I'd like to see some transporters added to Midgaard and Skara Brae so people don't dread the long walk just to see if anyone has actually built something.
Thats another thing too, right now all the zone is being used for is someone occasionally running through to check for quest mobs or the occasional scavenger hunt. Aside from the meager handful of people who have added mobs and two houses, no one cares about it. The current policy doesn't encourage people to build, it encourages them to continue boosting their regen rates. Give people a bit of free reign to let them come up with new items that aren't immediately nerfed after approval and increase what players can do with their mobs and stores(once someone actually builds one!)without requiring a dozen post-perfect remorts just so they aren't killed by a single spell or have their creative new items dismissed as unimportant because they're too weak or restricted by the guidelines.
-- Maranta
Honestly, that saddens me, too. It took a good bit of effort to put that zone together, and nobody uses it. I think there's two or three houses, and a couple of mobs so far. :-/
Basically, I was given a map, and I had to fill in descriptions from there. But there's no real background, because it was supposed to be for all of the remorted people to put their keeps and shops and houses. It was basically made to be generic, so as not to overshadow anything that any of the players might want to add. -That's- where your diversity was supposed to come from.
The northwest was -originally- supposed to connect to the cobblestone path. Then it was decided that we'd leave it open for future expansion. We were being optimistic, the same way we were when each street contained so many rooms. We wanted to leave plenty of room for people to put things in.
I think autoexits should be enabled, too. Hell, I worked on it for weeks, and -I- have trouble navigating it sometimes. But heck, for a random bit of prettiness, go look at one of the signposts. There's some nifty extra descriptions on them. Just have a fixed width font to view it properly. Or hang around some of the mobs, and read the speech procs. Some of them are actually pretty funny, imo.
In any case, I guess I can just be glad it's not higher on the list.
-- Arizhel
*drumroll please...*
For once I'm going to agree with Maranta. No, it doesn't happen often but I fully admit that he's head-on right, in this case. The zone had a nifty concept: use your remorts to build cool stuff into the game without having to go through the "dentists office" of zone approval. Unfortunately, it turned into another version of zone approval.
Remorting usually takes at least 24 hours of work. In 24 hours, some people could have a small zone written. How long did Straight Path take? How long did Donner's Den of Smut take? Seriously, remorting does actually take some time and it wouldn't hurt to have that paid off in some selfless way.
If Gambler woke up, blessed himself, basked in the concept of how lucky everyone was that he looked so good and how lucky his wife was to be able to sleep beside him every night, maybe... he would have simply renamed stuff or gave himself a few dozen guild guys. Instead, he added stuff to Arcadia for other people to enjoy.
The bottom line is (and always has been) that the game is supposed to be fun. When you have such stringent guidelines that don't allow you to do some of the more entertaining stuff.. ohh like say make "Mayor Bunny, supermob of Arcadia and his 8d8+10+10 mallet of mischief", you become disgruntled and ignore the option completely. Here's an example:
"You may construct a shop. The first remort will gain you the shop room itself. The second remort will gain the shopkeeper and the third and fourth remort will each gain 5 *basic* items."
3 remorts to get a freakin functional shop!?!? At that point it doesn't even sell anything remotely creative. Why not just pull the rest of your teeth out for good measure? I mean, come on. What good are the options of "the room for the shop" and "the room for the shop and the shopkeeper that sits there with his mallet in his hand?" Not only does that create an annoyance for someone who just wanted to make something neat, but it also creates piles of confusion for people trying to play in the zone
The whole concept of Arcadia could have easily flooded outside the city into other projects. Maybe something actually could get added to the Sea of Dreams. Maybe something could get added to the Floodlands. Heck, maybe something could get added to the Rift. It's not like the mud isn't in need of new zones.
Unfortunately, the execution of this remort option has followed several other policy-related patterns from the past few years and has thus flushed itself down the toilet. Imho, the whole remort city option should be completely rewritten. The option should be recreated with the idea of fun in mind and should offer different allowances for what a player is trying to accomplish in the long term. Additionally, it should include provisions relating to effort. It's harder to remort after remort 7 than it is after remort 1.
When you do select an option though, you should get a useful package rather than something that isn't even functional. If you're building a mob, great. Build the basic mob and add to it. When you build a shop, you need to have a shop. Maybe this can only be obtained after remort 3 or maybe it can only be obtained after you've brought a generic character up to the level of "shopkeeper" to open the place. Still, you need something useful - not a shopkeeper who is only hoping to sell him/herself for a living.
To make matters worse, the -city- was added flush up against another -city-, adding more clutter to the area and making the environment far less hospitable to someone new to the game. Shouldn't there be some zoning law against that? If I was the Sultan, I'd have Raistlin just light the whole thing and make room for a parking lot.
Here's a tip. Pay attention how things "feel". If you feel like you might stagger drunkenly and accidently end up in the next zone, odds are the zones are too close. In addition, playing the game always helps. No, I don't mean logging in and allowing yourself to play the role of dragbie, while other people level you. I also don't mean testing your finely tuned skills on the shire, greza ship, straight path, weeden or the amusement park. I mean you should run the hard mobs as well as the easy ones. You should play multiple classes and make every attempt to learn what effort it actually takes to do things like remort over and over. For example, I can assure you that it takes far less effort to remort a cleric over and over than it does to solo a ninja to 30.
Maybe once these things are taken into consideration, nice ideas like Arcadia won't sit so barren, ranking itself in the top 10 crappy zones and the mud might actually flourish again.
-- Tam
ok, I have a lot of multi remort chars.. Thoughts on the bonuses and arcadia:
1) I would NEVER consider wasting a remort to make a shop, let alone 3 remorts, especially considering the shop does NOTHING for me.
2) IF I wanted to make a zone I would write one, and submit it, not waste a remort for the privelege of doing what I can do just as easilly without remorting....
3) now (and these are big IFS) If you came back in at your receptionist. If you got gold for your shop, If you could access the town easilly so any of the above had purpose. Then I might consider the town. As it is, the gate guards are good for quake and thats about as far as the usefullness of the zone goes.
Still better than DOOM though
-- Pixie
Alright I'm going to make this a two-part reply so as to not waste space. But first I'd like to personally thank both Arizhel and Tam for taking the time and replying to this thread especially while the game is up as most people don't even read the boards unless its down or to check gauntlet results.
* * *
Arizhel,
I think anyone who has actually taken the time to look through the city and see its potential will appreciate the effort you put into it. Yes its extremely large and open with more than enough room for everyone to put down a house or shop and build almost a merger of the three hometowns. The fault doesn't lie in your design, its very colorful and easy to navigate like any zone once you've spent time in it.
I've probably spent more time in there than most people, enough to stop and listen to the speech procs and read the rooms properly. Take it any way you want but I think you did an excellent job.
* * *
Tam,
Despite some past differences, its nice to see we can agree on things as well which has always been something I've respected about you.
The design isn't the problem, neither is the designer. The fault lies solely in the truly moronic restrictions and requirements just to build a house or a paltry shop that sells newbie gear.
Everything you had to say about the zone and more is 100% true and should be acted on immediately. Sadly we both know it won't but it's still a pleasant change to see someone who understands the problem plaguing our game and will openly speak out against it.
* * *
Here's to hoping that people who set utterly ridiculous limitations and foolish rules will get off their invisible rears and actually come down to play more than five minutes and NOT sit in the temple just to watch the few remaining players pass them by
-- Maranta
Arcadia as I mentioned in game needs to have old statues sent there, perhaps with a non 100% load, 5-10% or so perhaps so it might take several hrs to see them, but the zone is made to be a shrine to jedimuds past and it would be nice to rarely see unicorn cosmo umi and others reappear.
Additionally It might be worthwhile considering rounding up all the currently perfect characters past out there and adding them to the zone, people who are now gone like azure and bravoman, perhaps even moving the current mobs into the zone as opposed to being scattered throughout the wayhouse guilds bardic colleges.
The fact that arcadia doesnt have a bar or adventurers tavern kinda place seems greatly disappointing but i dont see anyone EVER putting forth the effort to create one let alone populate it.
Arcadia to really be a success needs the perpetual attention paid to it that doom receives.
I have to agree that it needs to be FARTHER away from any hometown really perhaps a transitional zone should be written for it, some 20-30 room setup, and give it a greater town feel a water vendor a wizard an armorer, guild masters etc
-- Farbekrieg
Discuss:
- remort policy
- alternatives
- removal of zone