Altering the Gauntlet?

[guts]

Maybe we could alter the gauntlet so that if you take a different path through, say through a side-door it would be more conducive to a Bard/Cleric or some other combo?

Maybe a thief pickable door for an alternate route.

It would take some more forethought in setup but then maybe.

Maybe it could be setup such that anybody that would like to run the gauntlet in a 24 hour period could and be timed... fastest time wins. Make it so that whatever advantages are gained are mitigated through the docking of time or addition of an extra mob.

Just tossing out some ideas.

[Maranta]

Instead of that, I think Ching has finally caught on with the latest gauntlet that prohibited warriors. 2-4 canned items don't make up for 200 perma hp and dhit without a very specific mob set. Still side doors aren't even needed with the amount of gauntlet routes and so few being used. Someone could set up say... 4 corridors for the standard W/C combo and an alternative corridor(s)for certain combinations of classes. The really tricky part is, depending on your stategy, you might be still better off to take the normal route using an alternative team.

Heck a lot of things can be done. Put a bag of canned items on a high resist phys mob that N/T can steal to drop the mob and several more for an adventage. Try camoflaging some canned magic in a room or two just for anyone who brought along a ranger! The combinations are only limited by the imagination of the person running the gauntlet.

[ching]

I was thinking of altering the pairs quest prizes.
They all seem fairly good and popular, but I was wondering if people wanted the prizes changed. I was thinking of the two greater belts, changing them from +hp/mana to +hpRegen/+manaRegen (not as many as the hp/mana value.) Ideas? suggestions?

[gambler]

Regen on waist is pretty special. It makes the tier one prizes unique and useful. Restructuring or doing something different could be fun, but really, there are only 2 woven
in the game total over a 3 year period. They are incredible and rare. If I come up with some
good suggestions for new stats, Ill repost, but certainly 2 DMG and 10Mregen is outrageous
Btw, there isnt a single HP item in the game past the Greater Lamp right now.

Gambler.

[Maranta]

Yeah Gambler pretty much said it all. Just getting a woven belt takes a bare minimum of 5 MONTHS of time unless you buy one of the earlier prizes from someone and still manage to win every single time. And thats a massive IF when it comes to winning since a single loss means you're not back at the beginning of the ladder, you're kicked clean off from a few stories up which makes the prospect really daunting for some.

Personally I'd just leave them as is, they're already the top belt(thats rentable)and a long-term goal for some people since widely useable damage belts are a rarity and should remain such.

-Maranta

[ching]

DO take a note.
That I have updated the prize progression to be such that if you lose, your prize only drops back one place. This is not retroactive, but applied starting 3 months ago (or so.) This should make things much better.

[Maranta]

Thats a good step. Now someone just needs to make the changes in the actual policy helpfiles so its openly advertised.

[antrus]

maranta said:

Thats a good step. Now someone just needs to make the changes in the actual policy helpfiles so its openly advertised.

yeah, i wasn't aware of that change or I would have been more likely to bet in the last one.

[Mal]

How about introducing a minimum number of participants for a gauntlet to happen?

One pair entering should not result in a gauntlet. Another pair joining just to pretend there is competition also isn't valid in my books as I've done this several times - although its quite fun just hacking through mobs. Perhaps 3 or 4 pairs.

Equipment should be restricted to that which loads in game. Gauntlets should be a matter of skill and smarts.

I'd even go as far as saying mobs should be ones that load in game, not quest mobs - as having prior knowledge would give advantage to players who have seen these mobs before, and would be severely detrimental to those who haven't UNLESS these mobs are NEW - and thus, never seen by either party before.

Aaron

[Aneyou]

Basically, you want to say that the NBA should be restricted to people who are under 6 foot tall because its unfair when people are over 6 foot tall.

That is not how it works. People don't get their equipment randomly on the floor, they work for what they have, whether quest or not. And knowledge of quest mobs? Why dont people just quest a few times and learn about the quest mobs themselves. Not everything comes easy.

The people you are trying to affect with this whole thing are people who have played long and hard for those things you want to take away.

[Mal]

You make some very valid points. Although I must say, I would be more interested in watching an NBA game where the players were under 6 foot instead of over. At least there is more challenge and skill to it.

Since I've been back, I think I've seen a total of two quest mobs. I play in every quest that is run if I can. So you'd have to be around for quite some time to see all of them.

I still think gauntlets should be about skill, smarts and blind luck instead of having fancier equipment. Non-Gauntlet quests, like hunting Koofy armies, shouldn't have that same restriction, as its a free for all.

I am one of those people as you say, negatively affecting by this change. Although I understand what you mean - it really isn't fair either, that if you have quest items such as armlets of crippling damage, that suddenly you need to have the in game loadable gear just for gauntlets to use instead of them.

Thanks for the feedback,

Aaron

[ching]

I really do try to 'change things' every few (if not every one) of the gauntlets. Trying to not favor the C(regen)/W(AC/Damage) pair which is very hard to beat. I have had no-quest only, no-doom item gauntlets. Why do you keep posting 'ideas' which I have already done? Do some research, read the web boards on the past gauntlets. With my theory of giving everybody a chance, I do not want to also penalize those who DO work to gather up the equipment and remorts to get to the top of the power player. However especially if two of more isles have 'power players' in them, then you should also run, because they will push each other to be on the edge and could die, leaving the way open for "lesser mortals" to get a full win. I remember when Patrick took a solo he was running 4th in, until all 3 of the 'leads' died. This was the week after he DTed at C25 and won as a C27. With semi junk eq you get after a DT when you do not have time to run up a full set. If you really want to get good at gauntlet, you get a long term partner and try killing HARD stuff with just the two of you. I have seen that, and it is the wise course. Same for solo, get and use (practice) taking out big things solo with canned magic.

Remember, I strive for 'equality of opportunity' NOT 'equality of outcome.' Everybody can remort and max their regen stats. Anybody can trade for eq on auction. Anybody can have an old character (and you can buy rerolls to have good stats and remort for the max stats and pips.) Of course all of this takes time and effort. From time to time I will have a newbie gauntlet (where nobody can have any remorts on their counter, or only 1 for Ranger and Bard.) But this is just to show the skill thing.

In any case, work hard, play hard, study hard, give generously, love totally. Never forget Jedimud is a game, "if you are not having fun you are doing it wrong."

[Mal]

I should have commended you on your decision to restrict that gauntlet to normal in game equipment. All I was suggesting is to continue going that route with future gauntlets. !remort gauntlets would be fun too and give opportunity to new players to have a shot at it. I haven't had a chance to run in one of those. I guess making it a bit more of level playing ground for newer players was what I was trying to suggest.

The minimum # of players doesn't really help much, the issue isn't that it shouldn't be run, the issue is more how to get more people to participate.

Aaron

[ching]

Adding the "extra prizes" for those who manage to live to room 8, 9, or 10, on a "bonus mobile" I have done in the past also. You could kill the storm warrior for a ring of focus, or pass him by and improve your time. This allows those who may not have great odds to win to at least get a fun yet not overpowering prize. This I have done this often in the past (and will do again.)

The admin is also looking into some other 'bonus' things we could be handing out in all kinds of quests, even trivia quests. This would also help the lower level admins to have 'quests' that more people would honestly play in. (And you would have to "work at it" to get the bonus stuff, not just say you want to quest. It will always be up to the immortal running the quest if you qualify for a participation award, etc.)

Things are not really standing still, they just look like it.

[Tarbal]

i know that in the past several people have ran gauntlets (not in the series) that have put all kinds of crazy restrictions on level/remorts/class etc to try to make it as even as possible....i ran one that required every player to create a new char...the only eq allowed was newbies kits and what could be found down their lanes....and ya know what? i am pretty sure that the winner of that gauntlet was one of the people who would normally win major gauntlets at the time anyways....so do you really think eq makes that big of a difference? or is it the mudskill and knowledge that really counts? sure...eq helps....but nothing can beat game knowledge and knowing how to use it.....

[Mal]

This still holds true given not enough people ran in the last gauntlet that I was here for. I wonder how many participants would come out for a newbie type gauntlet. I know I try to make every single one, just the timing is usually not so good for me.

[antrus]

Mar 31, 2009 5:32:32 GMT -5 Tarbal said:

or is it the mudskill and knowledge that really counts? sure...eq helps....but nothing can beat game knowledge and knowing how to use it.....

exactly... how do you think the people with those heavily remorted chars and the nicest quest eq got those items?

[Mal]

Gaining remorts only requires time and next to no mudskill or knowledge.

I'll take a different approach to answering the second part of your question.

How many players compete in quests?
How many players really compete in gauntlets? (lets exclude the last minute joiners just for kicks)
How many players have quit and either sold or given away the eq they have and how many players are left to inherit this equipment?

I really don't see much real competition on here. I am not saying those who have quest equipment don't have any mudskill / knowledge - most players are old as me, some even older - but the real competition has left the building.

I mean, having more then two equipment groups running around slaying quest mobs trying to build something - that is competition. Having highly respected skilled mudders racing against each other down a gauntlet, all risking their previous gauntlet prizes - that is competition.

Best equipment does not mean you have exceptional game knowledge and mudskill because I was on the top of the pile (when it was hard to be on top of the pile) and my mud knowledge did not even compare to some of the other players on this mud of that time, and none of them lacked in mudskill either. Unfortunately, most of these people have left.

So back to the topic at hand. What Ching is doing for the gauntlets is pretty damn good. It is just unfortunate that few players compete. So the real issues, in my opinion, lies in getting more players to compete. Does anyone have any suggestions to that end? I am at a loss for ideas, I would have personally thought the bonus items strung along the end of the gauntlet for those who would not finish first would encourage more players to run.

Aaron