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Post by Dank on Aug 3, 2006 12:04:43 GMT -5
MY TEN LEAST FAVORITE ZONES EVER WRITTEN
(as compiled by Dank Cysterian, Magnetist, Heretic and Hospitalier of the Temple)
First revision: 08/03/2006 Second revision: 10/13/2007 Third revision: 05/29/2008 Fourth revision: 01/08/2009 Fifth revision: 11/05/2020
1. Arcadia
Did someone simply use a text editor to cut and paste ten thousand identical rooms into this giant Walmart of immersive role-playing experience? Sheesh. If it weren't simply a sad pasture for perfect remorts who have nowhere to go with the overpopulation of the main towns, Arcadia might make a higher spot on the Worst Zone list. Fix the autoexit flags and round up all of the silly cats and put them in Ciara's God Room.
Please, please get rid of the annoying gem signs. Add the Sanctuary City, Hellas or Valhalla wandering mobs and their procs and make this place a semi-interesting one to visit.
Author's Note:
Okay, to be fair, this zone was intended to be replete with mortal-inspired keeps and shops that offered an opportunity for the playerbase to color their mud world... However, being in the field of entertainment, and being in the profession of teaching creativity, I know that a very few know how to clearly express their creative bent, and fewer still know how to deliver it. The idea of a self-created zone was flawed from the start... it just needs a little push to get going.
I think that someone needs to place ALL of the old statues in the city, relocate the statue's god room to Arcadia, spawn the stat in the room and let them wander in the zone to start. Then implement the generous remort policy that I outline somewhere else on these boards. Until this zone gets some attention, it will remain #1, imho.
2. Ofcol
Tell me that there's a special proc, interesting tale, or mildly amusing piece of eq that loads here. The fact that I even recall the name of the zone amazes me.
Editors Note: Ok, yep, Ofcol did have fifty+ rooms and an assortment of mobs in the original CAW implementation, but for some reason was culled into the current state. I'll be attempting to restore the original zone Raven modified guided by a copy of the 1998 lib/area someone, (Steppin?) was attempting to OLC into a new version of Ofcol/Northern Plains. I'll attempt to continue that effort. It's quite fascinating, with a series of druidic masters, more citizens, a plotline and strange Gygax style creatures.
3. Dwarven Village
Fix this zone so that there is a point to the quest. Attach the broken backdoor in the castle to the Goblin Cave's backdoor and I'll remove the zone from my silly list.
Author's note:
The topaz bracers are still a nice little item that you can get if even a lowbie char after a few dozen runs.
4. Three of Swords
A bizarre little hamlet, reads more like a ballad than a zone. You've got all the ingredients of a great story delivered with all the power of a whimper. Ever heard of Nellix?
Author's note:
After running the place extensively, (and side-stepping the DTs), I think that all this little place needs is more mob generation. Add wandering mobs to the town square (like panicking citizens--all running from the dragon) and many more mobs in the caves.
And how about a couple more cool items?
5. Elven Village
The best thing about this zone is the way you get into it. I would suggest bringing a recall and using it as soon as you do. An endlessly sorrowful set of room descriptions linked by a eerily Stephen Kingsian story-line ends up just confusing more than it entertains. And for the love of God, could someone please give the dying, burned, little blind kid some water? I get seriously depressed whenever I bump into the little dude.
Author's note:
Still, it's quite well written and you can make a really cool spell book from the assembly quest featured there.
I will attempt to restore Steppin' original vision of the zone, including several mobs and objects that have been commented. The Fomorian will roam again, perhaps not world wide, but at least in the zone.
ZONES that were on the list, but are now removed, for one reason or another:
Doom
Doom remains the leader of this list, falling in beside the great Florida Swampland, the Mohave Desert and the Vietnam War as a vast pointless waste of time and effort. The design is capricious, the prose sophomoric, the implementation flawed. Years of playerbase complaints have resulted in few bug fixes and zone mods. I'd sooner put an iron rod through my head and wire myself to the front bumper of Dutch's Volkswagen. Just put me in the Great Desert and force me to type E one hundred times.
Author's note:
Actually, now that I've actually been there and have seen some of the neato equipment that loads in there, I have come to regard the place in a different light. It is not really a typical "prose zone" but a technical challenge that pushes the best players to discover a solution set.
Doom is a masterpiece of .zon coding and mob tiered loading, rand zone reset door loads, portals, DT, mob variance, you name it. It's genius and Cog's rewrite improved it. It's still the premiere challenge to the best players in the game.
Lair of the Cave Fishers
Come on. Seriously. Let's change the zone to Lair of the Leisure Suit Larrys and see if attendance rises. Maybe it's a name thing.
Author's note:
Okay, I'm not sure what crack I was smoking when I posted this. For those of you who are not familiar with the Lair, it's actually just a single room in a larger cave system which, in turn, is part of Rhyoden.
Refuge/Asylum
Until the zone bugs (broken doors) are fixed, and more is revealed about it, this odd little zone by Gonfalon/Cognitasne will hang out here with the rest of the odd little zones with little purpose but to introduce some curious new equipment. (I do like the idea of introducing zone location clues by adding npcs with speech procs in the cities. Coolness.)
Editor's note:
So the zone has been fully implemented, doors and keys fixed, and my only sadness was that the Dr. Who Tardis didn't shadow storm style tp me somewhere else. Perhaps that was the intent Gonfalon had for the device but it's broken. I'll look into fixing it.
Emerald Maze
Another Cog zone, the maze puzzle is actually pretty neat, and the story and clues are cool... but some of the zone construction is broken and the lack of maxlimits leave a lot of junk around your ankles as you run around fighting troll parts. The !magic zone is just brilliant, and once all the stuff is fixed, including the main constructible (the AC apply is reversed due to the application of the wrong effect), this entry will be but a memory.
P.S. What's up with all the butterflies?
Editor's note: It's fixed and the multi-tier constructible is highly sought-after.
The Trials of Minos
I wish this zone were a little bigger (under the island) and a little less like a mini-gauntlet afterthought. I don't really believe there is an underlying story here. The mobs are a bizarre collection, almost a menagerie.
The sea is a silly maze (much like most of Cli (Colleges)) with some wicked DTs and mobbies scattered about.
Author's Note:
At the time of this writing, I haven't mapped all the way into Drakken Ru, so perhaps I'm missing something here.
Editor's Note: And I was. Tam did a fab job of rounding out Mahatma's original zone without sterilizing it. Adding the maze and the eventual device woman entrance to the Dark Jedi area was cool. Ru is a must mob for all evil Jedi, and, as we know, the only Jedi to be at Jedi is an evil Jedi. So.
The Shadow Rift
Welcome to JediMUD! I'm sure a zone that functions pretty much like a death trap would appeal to some twisted, basement-living, post-pubescent, animal torturing BLDR. Not me.
Author's note:
After running the zone and mapping it, I now see the joy in the sheer Cthulhuian madness of it. For those who know how to run it (get a big C or M and blast away, avoiding rooms with multi-hiddens), it's damned nice xp.
Ok, instead get a striking So or an imploding evil jedi and run it for the chaos band and xp during HH.
Floodlands/Great Road
Apparently Steppin mistakenly left this bit of script attached to the zone file while he was testing Ravenna or his Straight Path. Just remove a couple of tildes and the meaningless jumble swampy paths will go away.
Author's Note:
With the addition of some new items and the discovery of the DOOM portal here, this zone is slowly slipping out of this list. There are some neat items to be found here, but the addition of a few more zone hooks will finally take this little "zone corridor" off this list.
Criterion used in consideration:
1. Zone Originality - Is the zone faithful to the source it was derived from? If original work, is it well-crafted and interesting? 2. Level of Detail - Does the zone boast unique features or characters? 3. Popularity - What percent of the player base are attracted to the zone? 4. Mobile balance - Is there a range of intra-zone mobile challenges in order to appeal to a broad playerbase, from large groups to solo artists? 5. Equipment balance - Does the zone lure more than one class? 6. Prose - How immersive is the zone prose? Is it well written? 7. Zone consistency - Does the zone feel like it belongs at JediMUD? 8. Key clarity - Did the builder create solvable quests and clearly defined locked paths? 9. Corpse retrieval - Can you readily get your junk back if you die? 10. DT factor - Are the death traps well marked? Was the BLDR just sadistic?
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Post by AirIIDII on Aug 4, 2006 20:23:43 GMT -5
I really like cheers, but donners den maybe is bad , idk maybe it could be a skara brae type cheers for exp maybe? but we really do not have to many skara brae citizens or people that exp in that zone or visit it. I know Tam really doesn't like it either. I really should stay out of this though as not to offend anybody.
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Post by Maranta on Aug 4, 2006 21:33:23 GMT -5
Re: Arcadia
The idea behind the city was a sound one but it got really turned around along the way. First of all, enable the auto-exits in the rooms so people can actually see where they're going, its meant to be a friendly town afterall. Secondly, improve access to the town. The northwest gate into the city isn't even complete, it just deadends with no reason as does part of the cobblestone path so the two could easily be connected. Also I'd like to see some transporters added to Midgaard and Skara Brae so people don't dread the long walk just to see if anyone has actually built something.
Thats another thing too, right now all the zone is being used for is someone occasionally running through to check for quest mobs or the occasional scavenger hunt. Aside from the meager handful of people who have added mobs and two houses, no one cares about it. The current policy doesn't encourage people to build, it encourages them to continue boosting their regen rates. Give people a bit of free reign to let them come up with new items that aren't immediately nerfed after approval and increase what players can do with their mobs and stores(once someone actually builds one!)without requiring a dozen post-perfect remorts just so they aren't killed by a single spell or have their creative new items dismissed as unimportant because they're too weak or restricted by the guidelines.
My two coppers,
Maranta
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Post by AirIIDII on Aug 4, 2006 21:42:32 GMT -5
Ok also at the risk of PO some people. The Shadow rift really should be completeed and is not finished though horrors and other mobs in there are pretty cool. But the help file even says it is not finished. The people writing them are MIA even though they are level 36 or above. Someone kick them in the butt! I don't visit it much though cause I'm scared to die in there and am not supposed to visit it/ map it with imm. I'll take Dank's word for it though.
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Post by Arizhel on Aug 30, 2006 13:41:29 GMT -5
Re: Arcadia The idea behind the city was a sound one but it got really turned around along the way. First of all, enable the auto-exits in the rooms so people can actually see where they're going, its meant to be a friendly town afterall. Secondly, improve access to the town. The northwest gate into the city isn't even complete, it just deadends with no reason as does part of the cobblestone path so the two could easily be connected. Also I'd like to see some transporters added to Midgaard and Skara Brae so people don't dread the long walk just to see if anyone has actually built something. Thats another thing too, right now all the zone is being used for is someone occasionally running through to check for quest mobs or the occasional scavenger hunt. Aside from the meager handful of people who have added mobs and two houses, no one cares about it. The current policy doesn't encourage people to build, it encourages them to continue boosting their regen rates. Give people a bit of free reign to let them come up with new items that aren't immediately nerfed after approval and increase what players can do with their mobs and stores(once someone actually builds one!)without requiring a dozen post-perfect remorts just so they aren't killed by a single spell or have their creative new items dismissed as unimportant because they're too weak or restricted by the guidelines. My two coppers, Maranta Honestly, that saddens me, too. It took a good bit of effort to put that zone together, and nobody uses it. I think there's two or three houses, and a couple of mobs so far. Basically, I was given a map, and I had to fill in descriptions from there. But there's no real background, because it was supposed to be for all of the remorted people to put their keeps and shops and houses. It was basically made to be generic, so as not to overshadow anything that any of the players might want to add. -That's- where your diversity was supposed to come from. The northwest was -originally- supposed to connect to the cobblestone path. Then it was decided that we'd leave it open for future expansion. We were being optimistic, the same way we were when each street contained so many rooms. We wanted to leave plenty of room for people to put things in. I think autoexits should be enabled, too. Hell, I worked on it for weeks, and -I- have trouble navigating it sometimes. But heck, for a random bit of prettiness, go look at one of the signposts. There's some nifty extra descriptions on them. Just have a fixed width font to view it properly. Or hang around some of the mobs, and read the speech procs. Some of them are actually pretty funny, imo. In any case, I guess I can just be glad it's not higher on the list.
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Tam
Full Member
Posts: 170
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Post by Tam on Aug 30, 2006 14:50:32 GMT -5
*drumroll please...* For once I'm going to agree with Maranta. No, it doesn't happen often but I fully admit that he's head-on right, in this case. The zone had a nifty concept: use your remorts to build cool stuff into the game without having to go through the "dentists office" of zone approval. Unfortunately, it turned into another version of zone approval. Remorting usually takes at least 24 hours of work. In 24 hours, some people could have a small zone written. How long did Straight Path take? How long did Donner's Den of Smut take? Seriously, remorting does actually take some time and it wouldn't hurt to have that paid off in some selfless way. If Gambler woke up, blessed himself, basked in the concept of how lucky everyone was that he looked so good and how lucky his wife was to be able to sleep beside him every night, maybe... he would have simply renamed stuff or gave himself a few dozen guild guys. Instead, he added stuff to Arcadia for other people to enjoy. The bottom line is (and always has been) that the game is supposed to be fun. When you have such stringent guidelines that don't allow you to do some of the more entertaining stuff.. ohh like say make "Mayor Bunny, supermob of Arcadia and his 8d8+10+10 mallet of mischief", you become disgruntled and ignore the option completely. Here's an example: "You may construct a shop. The first remort will gain you the shop room itself. The second remort will gain the shopkeeper and the third and fourth remort will each gain 5 *basic* items." 3 remorts to get a freakin functional shop!?!? At that point it doesn't even sell anything remotely creative. Why not just pull the rest of your teeth out for good measure? I mean, come on. What good are the options of "the room for the shop" and "the room for the shop and the shopkeeper that sits there with his mallet in his hand?" Not only does that create an annoyance for someone who just wanted to make something neat, but it also creates piles of confusion for people trying to play in the zone The whole concept of Arcadia could have easily flooded outside the city into other projects. Maybe something actually could get added to the Sea of Dreams. Maybe something could get added to the Floodlands. Heck, maybe something could get added to the Rift. It's not like the mud isn't in need of new zones. Unfortunately, the execution of this remort option has followed several other policy-related patterns from the past few years and has thus flushed itself down the toilet. Imho, the whole remort city option should be completely rewritten. The option should be recreated with the idea of fun in mind and should offer different allowances for what a player is trying to accomplish in the long term. Additionally, it should include provisions relating to effort. It's harder to remort after remort 7 than it is after remort 1. When you do select an option though, you should get a useful package rather than something that isn't even functional. If you're building a mob, great. Build the basic mob and add to it. When you build a shop, you need to have a shop. Maybe this can only be obtained after remort 3 or maybe it can only be obtained after you've brought a generic character up to the level of "shopkeeper" to open the place. Still, you need something useful - not a shopkeeper who is only hoping to sell him/herself for a living. To make matters worse, the -city- was added flush up against another -city-, adding more clutter to the area and making the environment far less hospitable to someone new to the game. Shouldn't there be some zoning law against that? If I was the Sultan, I'd have Raistlin just light the whole thing and make room for a parking lot. Here's a tip. Pay attention how things "feel". If you feel like you might stagger drunkenly and accidently end up in the next zone, odds are the zones are too close. In addition, playing the game always helps. No, I don't mean logging in and allowing yourself to play the role of dragbie, while other people level you. I also don't mean testing your finely tuned skills on the shire, greza ship, straight path, weeden or the amusement park. I mean you should run the hard mobs as well as the easy ones. You should play multiple classes and make every attempt to learn what effort it actually takes to do things like remort over and over. For example, I can assure you that it takes far less effort to remort a cleric over and over than it does to solo a ninja to 30. Maybe once these things are taken into consideration, nice ideas like Arcadia won't sit so barren, ranking itself in the top 10 crappy zones and the mud might actually flourish again. -Tam Re: Arcadia The idea behind the city was a sound one but it got really turned around along the way. First of all, enable the auto-exits in the rooms so people can actually see where they're going, its meant to be a friendly town afterall. Secondly, improve access to the town. The northwest gate into the city isn't even complete, it just deadends with no reason as does part of the cobblestone path so the two could easily be connected. Also I'd like to see some transporters added to Midgaard and Skara Brae so people don't dread the long walk just to see if anyone has actually built something. Thats another thing too, right now all the zone is being used for is someone occasionally running through to check for quest mobs or the occasional scavenger hunt. Aside from the meager handful of people who have added mobs and two houses, no one cares about it. The current policy doesn't encourage people to build, it encourages them to continue boosting their regen rates. Give people a bit of free reign to let them come up with new items that aren't immediately nerfed after approval and increase what players can do with their mobs and stores(once someone actually builds one!)without requiring a dozen post-perfect remorts just so they aren't killed by a single spell or have their creative new items dismissed as unimportant because they're too weak or restricted by the guidelines. My two coppers, Maranta
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Post by pixie on Sept 1, 2006 17:07:13 GMT -5
ok, I have a lot of multi remort chars.. Thoughts on the bonuses and arcadia:
1) I would NEVER consider wasting a remort to make a shop, let alone 3 remorts, especially considering the shop does NOTHING for me.
2) IF I wanted to make a zone I would write one, and submit it, not waste a remort for the privelege of doing what I can do just as easilly without remorting....
3) now (and these are big IFS) If you came back in at your receptionist. If you got gold for your shop, If you could access the town easilly so any of the above had purpose. Then I might consider the town. As it is, the gate guards are good for quake and thats about as far as the usefullness of the zone goes.
Still better than DOOM though.
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Post by Maranta on Sept 3, 2006 19:52:13 GMT -5
Alright I'm going to make this a two-part reply so as to not waste space. But first I'd like to personally thank both Arizhel and Tam for taking the time and replying to this thread especially while the game is up as most people don't even read the boards unless its down or to check gauntlet results. * * * Arizhel, I think anyone who has actually taken the time to look through the city and see its potential will appreciate the effort you put into it. Yes its extremely large and open with more than enough room for everyone to put down a house or shop and build almost a merger of the three hometowns. The fault doesn't lie in your design, its very colorful and easy to navigate like any zone once you've spent time in it. I've probably spent more time in there than most people, enough to stop and listen to the speech procs and read the rooms properly. Take it any way you want but I think you did an excellent job. * * * Tam, Despite some past differences, its nice to see we can agree on things as well which has always been something I've respected about you. The design isn't the problem, neither is the designer. The fault lies solely in the truly moronic restrictions and requirements just to build a house or a paltry shop that sells newbie gear. Everything you had to say about the zone and more is 100% true and should be acted on immediately. Sadly we both know it won't but it's still a pleasant change to see someone who understands the problem plaguing our game and will openly speak out against it. * * * Here's to hoping that people who set utterly ridiculous limitations and foolish rules will get off their invisible rears and actually come down to play more than five minutes and NOT sit in the temple just to watch the few remaining players pass them by. -Maranta
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Antessima
Junior Member
Lord of Ridicule
Posts: 74
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Post by Antessima on Sept 6, 2006 21:06:06 GMT -5
I'd just like to suggest that instead of putting DOOM in there twice, you should put the Bardic Colleges in there.
Why?
Simple. First, it's bard-only, so only one class can run it. Second, it promotes rule-breaking, since bards enjoy luring clerics into botting roles, which can lead to unattended botting, which is illegal. Third, the death-traps are unusually common, and I disagree with any assertions that they are well marked. Many of the rooms in the zone have humorous names (such as "Food Fight!") which could mislead players into thinking that getting flushed down a toilet is all in good fun. Except it isn't. Fourth, with so much of the colleges dark, bards are at a natural disadvantage. Yes you can sing a light song, but that doesn't help with seeing what the names of the rooms around you are. Lastly, given that all of the colleges except the last require recalls to exit, and since bards lack a recall spell, a young player can quite easily become stuck if he doesn't know to bring a recall scroll.
I think the concept is great, but the execution is flawed.
- Me
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Pioneer
New Member
Part of the few, the proud, the warrior poets
Posts: 42
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Post by Pioneer on Sept 7, 2006 0:05:36 GMT -5
I beg to differ with your evaluation of the bardic college...
here's my take on it :
1. it's bard only, as it should be, since 99% of the gear in the college can only be used by bards.
2. only a first time bard really need a cleric bot, once you're over the learning curve, you don't need a cleric at all to run any of the colleges.
3. the DTs ARE marked, if you just take the time to examine the exits.
4. dark rooms... believe it or not, they're there for a reason, ex: in the first college cafeteria, taking off your light actually shows you the way out. AND the bardic college follows the rule that no DT can be a dark room.
5. none and I repeat, -NONE- of the colleges requires a recall unless you get lost or fall into a !exit trap.
And I don't just think it's a good concept, I believe it is. It's a place for newer bards to learn their skills and what their songs do and at the same time it's a place for older bards to remember their youth. Personally, I make it a point to run each college at least once every remort just because it's FUN.
The Bardic College was one of the first zones implemented and has seen very little changes in the decades that went by, which is a great testimony to it's writer's skills.
To sum it up, I think you're just jealous that your favorite class doesn't have it's own class zone to chill in! =P
Pio.
Part of the few, the proud, the warrior poets!
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Pioneer
New Member
Part of the few, the proud, the warrior poets
Posts: 42
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Post by Pioneer on Sept 7, 2006 0:17:24 GMT -5
About the worst zones award, I'd like to nominate Three of Swords, or as I call it affectionately, Three of DTs.
I have never seen a more depressing and pointless zone, ever! Burned out farmhouses and BBQ'd tavern daughter... what a great mix! Throw in Bobby the Black and Aglaaaaandir and you've got a nice recipe for a souffle that won't rise to any occasion. Did I mention the 3 DTs within 20 rooms yet?
Pio.
Part of the few, the proud, the warrior poets!
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Tam
Full Member
Posts: 170
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Post by Tam on Sept 7, 2006 2:35:55 GMT -5
2. only a first time bard really need a cleric bot, once you're over the learning curve, you don't need a cleric at all to run any of the colleges. 4. dark rooms... believe it or not, they're there for a reason, ex: in the first college cafeteria, taking off your light actually shows you the way out. AND the bardic college follows the rule that no DT can be a dark room. Actually, you didn't ever need a bot in the beginning. Battle-recall didn't bend you over the chair and that's how you were expected to do things like run the President. The dark rooms are -genius- if you know how to use them. If you don't the maze looks flawed. All in all, the colleges could use some tweaks but its sort of nice to have a bard only zone. Other classes should have the same available. It not only tests solo skills but it also tests your ability to act at different levels.
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Post by Dank on Dec 2, 2006 13:29:26 GMT -5
Let me just say that I would never write something that, in and of itself, was pointedly disrespectful of the wonderful efforts that each of the implementors and builders have made for our beloved game during all the years i've been enjoying this fantastic game.
I think it's important that, on occasion, we compare notes, be honest with ourselves and enjoin in constructive dialogue. Especially since the #$@%! game is offline right now and I feel like a heroin addict with only methadone for solace.
Criticism is necessary for art to be deconstructed and applied. As a future zone writer, I will certainly benefit from the full understanding of what brings the best balanced experience to the text player.
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farbekrieg
Junior Member
"CCChha cha cha changes, time to change the oil... dont wanna be an oily man.
Posts: 88
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Post by farbekrieg on Apr 30, 2007 12:31:48 GMT -5
THE TOP TEN WORST ZONES EVER WRITTEN (as compiled by Dank Cysterian, Magnetist, Heretic and Hospitalier of the Temple) 1. Doom2. The Shadow Rift3. Lair of the Cave Fishers4. Ofcol5. Three of Swords6. Floodlands/Great Road7. Elven Village8. Dwarven Village9. The Trials of Minos 10. ArcadiaCriterion used in consideration: 1. Zone Originality - Is the zone faithful to the source it was derived from? If original work, is it well-crafted and interesting? 2. Level of Detail - Does the zone boast unique features or characters? 3. Popularity - What percent of the player base are attracted to the zone? 4. Mobile balance - Is there a range of intra-zone mobile challenges in order to appeal to a broad playerbase, from large groups to solo artists? 5. Equipment balance - Does the zone lure more than one class? 6. Prose - How immersive is the zone prose? Is it well written? 7. Zone consistency - Does the zone feel like it belongs at JediMUD? 8. Key clarity - Did the builder create solvable quests and clearly defined locked paths? 9. Corpse retrieval - Can you readily get your junk back if you die? 10. DT factor - Are the death traps well marked? Was the BLDR just sadistic?Doom.. What can you say a mysterious zone often dominated for ages by a single character (umi, antrus, others) I like the zone i enjoy the fact it is one of the few zones that is constantly monitored and updated, sure I wish i could be the FIRST person to get in there after crash but that just doesnt happen. That said i still have problems with the wandering minotaur not loading 'randomly' and two his load on death proc seems to have a serious aversion to magic. Why does he have to die to physically to load his damn key it just isnt right, is this intended or is the load on death not loving my call lightning, or is the key already out there and im a retard when it happens. Shadow Rift, I havent been there in forever (6 or so years) but it is one of the only places you can trump to since regular trumps NEVER get passed out. Potentially this zone could be so much more fun, the last time I and a friend wandered through (cleric/warrior with summon sanct) we reset stuff but never actually found anything to load. Something needs to load in there (be found in there) that makes helping people with corpse retrevials more fun. Ofcol definitely needs is missing something, in fact I have seen ofcol on other muds with 30 or so more rooms (diana captain of ofcol, a dragon follower tower, and a shrine. Arcadia as I mentioned in game needs to have old statues sent there, perhaps with a non 100% load, 5-10% or so perhaps so it might take several hrs to see them, but the zone is made to be a shrine to jedimuds past and it would be nice to rarely see unicorn cosmo umi and others reappear. Additionally It might be worthwhile considering rounding up all the currently perfect characters past out there and adding them to the zone, people who are now gone like azure and bravoman, perhaps even moving the current mobs into the zone as opposed to being scattered throughout the wayhouse guilds bardic colleges. The fact that arcadia doesnt have a bar or adventurers tavern kinda place seems greatly disappointing but i dont see anyone EVER putting forth the effort to create one let alone populate it. Arcadia to really be a success needs the perpetual attention paid to it that doom receives. I have to agree that it needs to be FARTHER away from any hometown really perhaps a transitional zone should be written for it, some 20-30 room setup, and give it a greater town feel a water vendor a wizard an armorer, guild masters etc.
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Post by Aneyou on Mar 23, 2008 21:56:15 GMT -5
I only just saw this post for the first time, and you know what? I've never seen Dank run doom before. There's another one of his posts where 5 people post doom as the worst zone ever? 5 people don't run Doom currently, not because they don't like it, but because they don't know it. The zone has kept players out for years after years because it takes some SERIOUS time to actually figure out, and the people that know it are pretty secretive about it. Just because you cant find your way around a zone with only one room description doesnt mean that its a crappy zone. You're in a featureless hallway where everything looks the same and every mob tries to kill you...that's the point...its not badly described, its just confusing. Random gateways take you to random places, thats more constructive than some other zones. He put straight path as one of the best zones...its straight lines of enemies...?? seriously?! How about people learn to run the zone, figure it out, then if you don't like it, post. Posting about a zone you've only possibly helped out in but really know nothing about and bashing on it is just plain ignorant.
Why am I so b.i.t.c.h.e.y about this you might be wondering? Because I for one mapped this zone on my own without anyone's help and also did it after it was made !gate. I thought it was a great zone and a great challenge after everything else wasnt anymore. Currently Mudstud and the Shiv guys, and me and the Fusion guys are the only ones to run it. Did any of those guys post about how bad a zone it is?
Peace, Algodon's Friend, Aneyou.
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Post by Maranta on Mar 24, 2008 0:26:56 GMT -5
Might wanna recheck his post. The second paragraph is a revised opinion about the zone stating a shorter version of what you just said. Lists as being editted back in Dec 06 by the way at the very bottom of the post.
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Post by Aneyou on Mar 24, 2008 1:57:30 GMT -5
Just goes to show that point exactly. Run the zone and you might think differently.
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Post by grendel on Mar 24, 2008 14:03:46 GMT -5
No DOOM totally sucks now! I HAVE ran it many, many times, it was better before the lil mobs purged. Not only that, they have never fixed some of the eq once the stat change went in. Who want's -2str or -6dex eq when 18dex doesn't work to well with skills? And yes, Causes are nice and should load there, but we need more elite eq like that up there. That and I'm still pissed that Kender Cloak don't load anymore.Honestly, how hard is it to map...take a naked mage and go? It was much more fun when it was a ranger playground. I always thought they should tear up DOOM every year and redesign the floor plan now that would make it challenging.
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Post by Aneyou on Mar 24, 2008 14:35:29 GMT -5
Well if it was as easy as mapping it with a naked mage, then it should be run just as often as any other zone. Not only that, but the entire zone is now !gate. It takes a long time and alot of deaths to get far in that zone with a naked mage, much less at the same time trying to make a map out of it
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Post by Dank on Mar 24, 2008 21:54:36 GMT -5
I think that Aneyou is right when he says that most of us have little stomach for long, protracted exploration and study of really kick-ass zones that yield a ton of really neat equipment.
But then, most of us have lives. Well, OK, not most, but a few.
For those that don't, Doom is a perfect substitute... something that will definitely help take the edge off of the embarrassment of your mom yelling at you from downstairs, or your IV sulfanimide drip getting clogged (depriving you of your amniotic/anti-bacterial soup), or your uric-acid inflammed bed sores from sending you back to the ER.
Or maybe it's just the fact that you have an unlimited amount of time to explore blank, featureless hallways because you don't make enough dough to live anywhere except in a county jail cell, studio apartment, or survivalist bunker.
Time is money.
So, I guess accessibility has to factor into any zone rating... I mean, it took me and Iolanthe and Gambler (separately) about ten years to crack Scipio and build the Ark of the Covenant, but only after about four months of intense bug-fixing and tiered load analysis and other migraine-inducing efforts. I mean, the fact that we did that indicates that I'm not just a f'ing kittycat that ran away from DOOM because I felt it was impenetrable. I ran away from DOOM because there was nothing in there except a goat and blinding boredom.
The point is that Scipio, for all of its bizarre room descriptions, is f'ing interesting... more interesting than 10,000 Dooms, 10,000,000 f'ing blank hallways and featureless rooms. Who gives a rat's ass whether or not anyone but SHIV ever figures it out?
I guess that based on Aneyou's assessment, DOOM is perhaps the most difficult zone in JediMUD. Maybe I should write that list. Bardic Colleges are tough (if you don't get the maps) as well as the Pagoda (now that the doors are fixed) and some others.
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Post by ching on Mar 28, 2008 12:34:29 GMT -5
I think that Aneyou is right when he says that most of us have little stomach for long, protracted exploration and study of really kick-ass zones that yield a ton of really neat equipment. Well I only enjoy the non negative DOOM equipment. After I got a brace of Causes, some Armor for my thief, and some Cleric arm wear, I was done with the zone. I basically find it just not worth the bother. The big problem is the zone was supposed to be Ever changing. Take the Kender Cloak. That was as the zone was supposed to be. Once people got an item, the item (and possibly mob) would be updated or replaced. Charis did some updating on it, but most of that was room flags, doors and keys, etc. Then she discovered real life with a real man and is gone from Jedi. Which is a good for her. The way it was supposed to work has not been achieved. My vote is to just rip it out, unless you can find somebody to actually WORK on it a lot and have it be the dynamic puzzling ever changing ever surprising zone it is supposed to be. However I know most of the power mudders only want to take, not to give, and if they can not run a zone (which would be the fate if you were ever editing it) they will not put in the time. *snip* Time is money. So, I guess accessibility has to factor into any zone rating... I mean, it took me and Iolanthe and Gambler (separately) about ten years to crack Scipio and build the Ark of the Covenant, but only after about four months of intense bug-fixing and tiered load analysis and other migraine-inducing efforts. I mean, the fact that we did that indicates that I'm not just a f'ing kittycat that ran away from DOOM because I felt it was impenetrable. I ran away from DOOM because there was nothing in there except a goat and blinding boredom. The point is that Scipio, for all of its bizarre room descriptions, is f'ing interesting... more interesting than 10,000 Dooms, 10,000,000 f'ing blank hallways and featureless rooms. Who gives a rat's ass whether or not anyone but SHIV ever figures it out? *snip* Yup, Step came to my 'cabin' and I had him stat the room, which is the Jedimud emulation of what used to be our real life family cabin (before my dad sold it in his retirement.) Every direction, every exit, and mostly every item, creature, or object in the room description is described with their own description. When I entered Scipio Dreaming for the first time, I thought 'wow he really did this up right.' I really enjoy the story and hints in the rooms. It is simply a good place to adventure and really get into the game. Doom is simply a problem solving exercise to get big power eq. Nothing more. Heck even with the torture room, etc. There are no prisoners to rescue, no real back story. Doom is simply the generic evil self indulgent overlord with his hoard of evil minions. Somebody surprise us all and take over the ownership of this zone and do regular updates on it.
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antrus
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by antrus on Mar 28, 2008 13:01:38 GMT -5
Somebody surprise us all and take over the ownership of this zone and do regular updates on it. I'm sure there would be more than a few people willing to do the job if they would trust someone with it.
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Post by Maranta on Mar 29, 2008 14:13:49 GMT -5
Undoubtably there would be a considerable amount of people who would volunteer to take DOOM over. For once I actually hope I'm dead wrong in saying they'd have no chance in hell of getting the opportunity.
For far too long the lack of communication between staff and players has gone on resulting in even more people leaving. Heck, it took 3 MONTHS to update the message of the DAY after the Christmas quest ended. No one knows what the hell is going on anymore and are met by dead silence 99% of the time or in rare cases a snippy comment for daring to ask.
I've heard the trust issues and betrayal a hundred times. You know what? Trust is just like Experience. Its awfully hard to develop any without being given the chance to try.
-Mar
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Post by Tarbal on Mar 30, 2008 2:03:19 GMT -5
i think that DOOM could be used for a variety of different things...not only could it be a perpetual quest zone, but it could be used as a test area for seeing how new and different procs and ideas can be used in the game. but again, this would take someone who is willing to work on it, and for someone else to allow them to work on the zone. it is a damn'd shame for such an opportunity to go to waste.
rat
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Post by Dank on Jan 12, 2009 19:49:20 GMT -5
I only just saw this post for the first time, and you know what? I've never seen Dank run doom before. There's another one of his posts where 5 people post doom as the worst zone ever? Based on the criteria presented, (and that's an important word here), and in its present state, with its present collection of eq, I collected feedback of some players and based on that, made an assessment... and I did so in the hopes that someone would jump in there and provide a little TLC. Clearly, if DOOM worked more along the lines that its many co-creators/implementors envisioned, it would be more than amazing. But, hey, that's what critics do... we point stuff out based on some criteria. Of course, we should have some grasp of the area in which we speak, and I think I do, based on my involvement in games, entertainment media and writing. In any case, I've updated my list. I'll provide an update annually, for both my favorite and least favorite zones. I'm trying to remove the BEST and WORST phraseology from these threads, as the analyses are quite subjective and are not meant to be pejorative.
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