Wamphryi
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The blood is the Life.
Posts: 31
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Post by Wamphryi on Mar 28, 2004 12:11:09 GMT -5
Here is another thought(yeah I am just full of ummmm ideas today ;D) remove aggros (like dervishes in nt) from hometowns. I mean you get a newbie on who doesnt know one hometown from another and they start walking around and boom die. Ok why do they want to stay then? Or on the hometown choice maybe rank the hometowns like 1-Midgaard(a good easy hometown for a new player) 2-Skara(a good challenging hometown to start from) 3-New Thalos(a dangerous/shady place to live). *btw I think it was Tam who I had gottent the ranking choice from (dont want to take credit for others idea)*
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Pink
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Post by Pink on Mar 28, 2004 16:49:48 GMT -5
Fomorian anyone? So you get a wanted level... big deal, log out, wait til whatever time it takes for it to go away, and log back in.
Newbies and crazy mages live off the city mobs.. I think they're fine the way they are.. What I'm waiting for is to be able to move chars back to midgaard ;D
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Post by pixie on Mar 29, 2004 0:20:27 GMT -5
what I would like to see for hometowns is a possibility to take a remort option to move to one of the other towns, sanct, hellas, rome, 3 of swords, corsair, where ever Of course still have the option to move back to the hometowns if you wanted. That aside I would LOVE the option to move back to Mid!
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Post by siolfir on Mar 29, 2004 0:43:31 GMT -5
Yes, it's going off topic. No, I don't care. I wanna put my 2 cents in. [glow=red,4,350] Let people move into Midgaard.[/glow] There is absolutely no rational reason to disallow it other than "we don't want people to be able to select the most popular hometown after they realized that they picked someplace that they don't like". There is also nothing warning people that if they don't select Midgaard at first, they won't be able to change to it later. Nor is there a warning at the immigration office in the other hometowns about attempting to move back. Perhaps this argument can be debated here, so that it makes sense to people...because I've never understood the rationale other than "let's force people out of Midgaard because we don't like it".
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Wamphryi
New Member
The blood is the Life.
Posts: 31
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Post by Wamphryi on Mar 29, 2004 10:43:26 GMT -5
Ok Back on the topic I started.
I wanted to take aggros out of hometowns specifically new thalos.
Putting more aggressiveness is another topic.
Ok let's imagine your a pure newbie just coming to Jedi for the first time. Ohh a nice screen comes up asking for your home town. Hmm I have no idea about these three areas so let me choose ohhh New Thalos. Ok your logged on now. Boom wow you get newbied, cool ok i get eq. Let me go wonder around a bit in the hometown. Ok i walk a few room BOOM DEAD. Why the hell do I wanna stay on a damn place like this where I cant even walk around a hometown. Hell I just logged on and have no idea about this place and I died. Screw this let me go find somewhere that is actually a little friendly to newbies and gives me a chance to learn. Bye Bye Jedi.
Now yall see my point to this thread?
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Wamphryi
New Member
The blood is the Life.
Posts: 31
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Post by Wamphryi on Mar 29, 2004 10:46:42 GMT -5
Ok now time for me to go off topic (yeah I know but who cares).
I agree with Siolfir about Opening Midgaard. Why ohh why is it still closed. Can someone in the admin give a valid logical explaination to this.
Ok I can see when gates were still the old way closing midgaard off because of moving mage squads around to one hometown.
One reason I heard was to get people to go to other hometowns. Hell if anything closing off Midgaard has caused me to not even consider going to another hometown. Maybe if the immigration office was permanently opened again then I would be inclinded to move a few folks around to explore from different areas and if hey I don't like being from a new hometown then *gasp* I can go back.
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Post by relantel on Mar 29, 2004 21:03:31 GMT -5
I don't know the experience with a newbie-level char in NT or Skara. other than having metroed there early on, and dying from an aggro in NT, thankfully before getting any decent eq. Midgaard has a decent number of low-level neutral mobs, mainly mercenaries, that are within the realm of a player recently graduated from the Newbie zones. For alignment either way, it usually takes going to Mindinir or the Shire to get alignment up or down. During this down time, I visited another Diku/Circle based Mud, where their solution was to waste away midgaard and force everyone elsewhere to the other three hometowns (NT, Skara and a 3rd name I cant recall, but it was long). Being the idiot I am, I found a bug that let me select Midgaard even though it wasnt on their menu, leaving me where I could not get out... Maybe the newbie solution to NT is (if possible) make the aggressive mobs only agressive above a minlev, say 6 or 8. I know I've bitten the farm there on more than one occaision where I was attacked by an aggressive mob (lamia for example), where an Elite Royal assisted against me, resulting in a quick death. My NT deaths come in spurts, usually die trying to get back to eq with all the corpse eaters and scavengers. I like the idea of a rating of hometown difficulty at the selection screen if we do nothing else. I'll admit I didnt realize the difficulty levels when I rejoined the game, only remembered having been hometowned in Midgaard when I played back in 1993, so it seemed a good place to start. Nothing like a down time to get good discussions going! Relantel/Steeler
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Tam
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Post by Tam on Mar 30, 2004 1:20:18 GMT -5
At the risk of getting punched in the mouth by the zone goddess the next time she sees me, I'm going to throw another thought into the mix.
One of the genius things I've seen on a few other muds over the years is the idea of urban to suburban to wilderness as you walk away from "home plate". In other words, the main towns are reasonably dosile, then they're surrounded by zones that are a little less dosile, then they get worse as you get further away from the hometown. So you basically know that the farther you wander, the more at risk you become. In addition, you have to actually work to get some of the better eq that loads in the more chilling zones.
Unfortunately, the problems with this idea are: 1) people would complain that their beloved speedwalks didn't work anymore, 2) people would complain if any downtime was involved, 3) unfortunately, there would be people who would complain because things might not end up as easy to do (squad, statue, questions) and 4) it would require a -pile- of time to set up.
Even if we wanted to have hometowns rated, we could still hold true to this principal. The benefit of living in the more hazardous hometown would be that it's a quicker trip to some of the l33t gear. *shrug*
I don't know; it's just an idea. What I do know, however, is that I can't count the amount of newbie corpses I've retrieved from the slimey ship, sieged, and the dungeons. Even worse, I don't know how many corpses I've retrieved from NT where someone tried to get their gold back and got whacked by a guard who didnt see "the first foul". Imho, if guards are going to try to whack people for fighting, it would also make sense for them to whack people they see trying to pick someone's pocket (pc or npc).
Aaaaaanyhow, I'm tired. Nite nite! -Tam
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Post by angelfire on Mar 30, 2004 8:13:26 GMT -5
I like the urban/suburban idea. I think it could be great if doing it would mean that people could move back to midgaard. As for the reasons you say it may not be liked *shrug* isn't the idea of the game to explore?
Yes you're speedwalk may not work anymore, so take the time to learn what you have to change and do it.
If things aren't as easy to squad, doe that also not promote the idea of grouping.
Yes, it would be a pile of work. But you would also have a better game.
And as for downtime, if you know you are gonna take the game down on this day at this time, put a notice out, don't just come on and say the game is going down in 5 mins. If the game is down this is one of the first places people check. People tend to complain less if they're given warning ahead time or if they're given an update on unforeseeable downtime
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Ciara
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Post by Ciara on Mar 30, 2004 9:59:22 GMT -5
At the risk of getting punched in the mouth by the zone goddess the next time she sees me, I'm going to throw another thought into the mix. I'll let you live only because it's my birthday and I'm feeling generous Don't think you'll be so lucky next time tho On another note: I *do* have all sorts of plans for the world and it's shape. It's not going to happen quickly, but *things* will change. That you can count on.
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Post by pixie on Mar 30, 2004 19:27:21 GMT -5
1 hopeful idea, that I already posted above.
if you make a house, keep, whatever, could you please make it so you can come into the game at that point, assuming you rented there?
for that matter, if you could rent anywhere and come in to gamne where you rented, it would be cool.
i am assuming it is doable only because rangers com in wherever they camped, not back in mid temple or wherever their ht is.
If i could rent my skara character and come back in mid, or vice versa, i wouldnt care what my ht was, thats just me though.
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Post by Dank on Mar 31, 2004 16:48:10 GMT -5
initially, all newbies should be born to midgaard. just hardwire it. midgaard is the de facto "capital" of jediMUD and where the most newbie helpers congregate. the proximity to experienced players willing to help new players will help ensure continued connect time. as players gain experience, create a sliding emmigration cost scale. that way, lev 30s, (who are sought after by hapless hometowns for protection against the impending rankan invasion or the dreaded, but fuzzy, lizardmen), pay almost nothing to switch hometowns. make this a no-brainer. who cares what town people decide to home in? by the way, i'd love to see other places get promoted to hometowns... like (drool) old thalos: a creepy, death-trap filled backwater designed for only the hardiest of mud pioneer. time to gentrify that zone! that's me, kissing some admin ass. don't think i'm too proud to get down and get brown.
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Post by Cordelia on Jul 28, 2004 16:52:19 GMT -5
I concur with this view because it fits in with the 'civilising' rationale i.e. eking a living in hostile lands; the whole frontier ethic of having to stake a claim and sometimes being forced to defend that initial claim. Slowly over time, others join and your community grows; gradually the community is made manifest through a city state - think Midgaard, NT and Skara Brae.
Dependent on the surrounding areas, a city-state can project its civlising influence far and wide; however, in unfriendly, hostile lands the city may be hard-pressed to keep various creatures at bay.
Also, cities should inhabit the characteristics of their surrounding area and/or their foundation e.g. life on the edge of the Great Eastern Desert can be harsh and unforgiving. Unfortunately, SB [Skara Brae] lacks atmosphere, partly because both Midgaard and NT are such strong cities, but also because the surrounding areas are fairly featureless and haven't been developed.
Personally, I would vote to keep the in the Dervishes, Lamia's and Skinny Kid's (my personal pet hates) because they're part and parcel of NT life. I would however, like the Amusement park to be moved to Midgaard because it doesn't sit thematically with NT.
Emigration back to Midgaard? Yes, I don't see why not. Like most people, I started out in Midgaard and couldn't see the logic starting out anywhere else. Upon gaining much valuable experience and levels, I wouldn't dream of leaving NT as it is accessible to many of the zones that I prefer, as well as having the ingredients for Cheese Sandwiches.
I'm not a waybread person.
Regards, Cordelia
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Post by Cordelia on Aug 4, 2004 8:05:51 GMT -5
Ciara,
Thanks for taking time out to explain potential changes and involve the player-base into what will be an extremely challenging exercise.
Whilst finishing a Jedi session yesterday and retiring to bed, I was ruminating on the feel of the Hometowns as I presume that the Hometowns will be the loci and everything else will be planned around them? I may be way off base here but it would fit in with Tam's suggestion.
Both Midgaard and NT have a distinct feel and tone to them but Skara Brae lacks character and the placement of zones around the immediate vicinity (Greza, Sieged and Elven Ruins, to name a few) suggests a lack of direction of how to develop the area i.e. it is to be a city-port (Donner's Den, Greza, etc), a den of inquity where all denizens of the oceans (pirates, sailors and smugglers) gather to do 'business'? A city under threat of an opposing force (Seiged?)? Or a city built upon the ruins of a previous civilization (Elven ruins), in untamed, hostile lands?
Once this is determined as part of zone revision, then each city can be ranked on a civilizing level i.e. the higher the level, the more secure the city for players (newbies). By the same token, the lower the rank, the more dangerous and hostile lands that surround it.
All the ideas in this thread have merit, I'm just attempting to place them in a conceptual frame-work.
Look forward to reading about the changes and forces that will shape Jedi, and consequently, will shape our lives of all who live in Jedi.
Cordelia
P.s. This is an absolute mammoth undertaking and I doth my Black Knight's visor to all involved in this enterprise. If there's anything we can do to get involved then just ask. Sadly, I'm still too 'newbie' to be of much assistance, aside from working my way down the 'Help Areas' list (yes, someone does read this fantastic resource).
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Post by Dank on Aug 19, 2004 6:37:44 GMT -5
P.s. This is an absolute mammoth undertaking and I doth my Black Knight's visor to all involved in this enterprise. you doff your visor. your spoon your broth. you hath your loin cloth. you doth and you do.
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Post by Cordelia on Aug 19, 2004 6:59:00 GMT -5
you doff your visor. your spoon your broth. you hath your loin cloth. you doth and you do. Time to ask a passing Mage (or Jedi) to perform a 'locate ojbect' for a copy of 'Hooked on Phonics'. Correction duly noted! Regards, Cordelia
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Griffon
Junior Member
If you make funny faces long enough, this is what happens...
Posts: 81
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Post by Griffon on Aug 19, 2004 10:02:29 GMT -5
Here's another wierd, wacky, and probably dumb idea.
First, gigantisize Midgaard. Make the town *big* (at least 2x it's normal size.) Have room for people to have their houses and such, as well as all sorts of shops... I'm sure there's other ideas for shops out there somewhere.
Second, get rid of the possibility of NT and Skara as hometowns (I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get a lot of negative response on this one, but oh well.) Who uses Skara anyway, and the only point of NT (in all practical sense) is for mage squads... sure, people would whine, but that's all right, they'd live... because it gets worse...
Third, make Midgaard the "centre" of the MUD, and add everything else around it. I like the idea of things getting progressivly more dangerous as you go farther out, but some make more sense other ways too. Underworld is above ground... you know, wierd things like that.
Sure, people's speedwalks would be shot to hell... but that's the fun of the mud, isn't it? Explore, explore, explore. NT and Skara would still be zones... just not hometowns. You can still rent there (if necessary, like w/ Helga) but you're gonna appear in Mid.
Just my .02, since I came into this convo kinda late.
Nic
p.s. Don't hurt me, Ciara :-)
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Post by Cordelia on Aug 19, 2004 11:33:52 GMT -5
I do, or rather, did. The immigration option is useful for when you explore a group of zones in the same vicinity i.e. Abandoned Ship, Amber Forest, Greza, Imperial Ravenna and Sieged Castle. Obviously, I jest regarding the last zone as I suffered a severe mauling before I even reached the gate! Unless Ciara has some radical ideas for home-towns, then the option should still be there for players to select any of the cities as home-towns - just not for newbies until say, one reaches level 8? Speedwalking is a minor grumble compared to the positive benefits of re-defining the geography of the realm in a logical and consistent way. It will be such a huge, onerous task but a worthwhile one - newbies will be able to explore a little without sitting in front of 'Welcome to JediMUd!' ad nauseum i.e. running into Greza straight off the bat. I too love the idea of travel becoming more dangerous as you leave behind the civilised realms and explore hithero rarely-explored wilderness or desert wastes. You could also have certain zones accessible only through other zones - rather like the Abyss beyond the Balor's domain (or is it the other way round? Can't quite remember). It will be a huge, onerous time-consuming task so patience and understanding will be a virtue. Who knows? Even I might have time to IMM Cordy into a Bard before zone revision is complete Regards, Cordelia
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Dew
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Post by Dew on Oct 9, 2004 14:08:52 GMT -5
Ok I know that this has been bought up several times and still there is no resolution. So I'm going to lay out my plan to get people out of Midgaard and you all can shoot holes in it and maybe we can develop a solution.
First and foremost, OPEN IMMIGRATION!! if people don't have the option to return to Midgaard they will never leave. It is that simple.
Ok now that immigration is open again what can we do to persuade people to change their hometown to NT and Skara Brae? Lets start first with money: make rent cheaper in NT and even cheaper in Skara Brae. To encourage long term residents in NT and Skara Brae make rent cheaper based on their Length of residents in the town. To ensure people don't just change there hometown to rent out for the night, for the immigration fee charge whatever the cryo fee for that character would be in that hometown.
Now that we covered monetary compensation what additional incentives can we offer players to abandon the familiarity of Midgaard. Well at that I'm at a loss, I can think of things like, eq that is NT Only, or Quests that can only be completed if you've been a resident of Skara Brae in good standing for fifty days. But lets get real that is some serious coding and it would take a major overhaul in the code to accomplish them. I'm open to suggestions, other than money I can't think of another reasonable compensation.
Well that will hopefully start the topic and maybe we will think up something and get it implemented.
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antrus
Junior Member
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Post by antrus on Oct 13, 2004 8:33:19 GMT -5
First and foremost, OPEN IMMIGRATION!! if people don't have the option to return to Midgaard they will never leave. It is that simple. I agree with this point. I've had several characters that I would have like to have moved to NT or even Skara for a certain amount of time, but have not because there is not a way to move back to mid. Another idea that will probably be shot down and laughed at, would it be too convenient for there to be a portal room or something in each hometown, that would allow for easy transportation to and from hometowns.(possibly for only lower levels)
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Post by Cordelia on Oct 13, 2004 12:47:46 GMT -5
Personally, I don't think this is a viable idea, even for low levels because not only do we not encourage exploration - so newbies pick up next to no knowledge of geography - but there is not much for newbies in NT and SB is a death trap in its present state.
Not shooting your idea down but I think it's redundant because that's what the metro is for.
Where I do agree with you and the multitude of people is in allowing repartriation back to Midgaard. By not allowing it, players are discouraged from ever leaving. I moved Cordy to NT safe in the knowledge that she remorted Bard but I will be damned if I will move any other characters there!
Regards, Cordelia
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Nando
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Posts: 37
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Post by Nando on Nov 26, 2004 16:54:04 GMT -5
Ok, although I hadn't really given much thought to the issue (almost all my chars are mid based, and see no real reason, except maybe for mage squad, to move any of them), if you DO want to encourage other hometowns, I like the idea of the cheaper rent, as long as it's your home town.
another idea, and this is used in real life, is to put in a "tax" system. Each year you have to pay taxes on your chars for the amount of time lived in the town. Wanna live in Midgaard? Pay higher taxes. Just like if you live in Beverly Hills. Everything should be more expensive in Midgaard. Soon, you will have most older and better equipped chars (and prolly all stabber wielding thieves, or phaser wielding clerics) over at Skara Brae. Or, you would get rid of some of that extra cash on some chars...
I'm sure this rent thing is probably tough to code. So, lets give Cosmo a try *grin*. And if not, at least make skara residents and nt resident pay less rent than midgaard fellas. Same as Rangers get to pay more if they camp ;-)
.02
Nando
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Antessima
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Lord of Ridicule
Posts: 74
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Post by Antessima on Nov 26, 2004 21:37:33 GMT -5
Okay, time to weigh in on this issue, since my beloved hometown of Skara Brae has taken some undue bashing. First, I'd like to totally deny that Skara Brae is a practical death trap for newbies. Sure, the Greza ship can become messy in a hurry, and ignoring the sign at the entrance to Sieged Castle is a bad thing to do. Oh, and sure, there are a half-dozen actual DT's within 20 movements of the fountain. But it's a very soft-spoken hometown: no aggro mobs, the wimpiest town guards of the three, and at least a couple zones that have mobs small enough that you can work up some exp in them without dying (Donner's Den, Forests of Phrygia). It also has some of the cheapest prices for common items at its stores, and being pretty much ignored by the storekeeper spammers, you can usually sell that neat item you found without getting told to go ask a wizard. Along those same lines, I always make a point to check the donation room whenever I log in, because for the most part, no one else ever does, so there is usually some sort of neat trinket in there being ignored. So, there, stop bashing Skara. Or I'll sic a Red Sash on you. Anyway, some input into this discussion...I am all for opening up other locations as possible hometowns. I've often thought it would be pretty neat to live in Three of Swords, or to share breakfast with Arsenius (bet nobody else knows where he is ). It would make for a lot of exploration, since you could move to someplace like Sanctuary and then wonder just what was in the Swamp of Night Secrets. I also support the idea of making newbies automatically born into Midgaard. I helped an NT newbie a few weeks ago with figuring out how to play the game, and was later extremely upset to find 7 of her corpses near the Southern Gate at the expense of a lamia and the dustdigger. That kind of danger in a hometown with no warning to unsuspecting newbies is really and truly unfair. And yes, I can definitely see people experiencing the dust devil right outside the Dancing Daemon Inn and deciding that Jedi is *not* the place to be. My two cents
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Post by Dank on Nov 30, 2004 3:13:29 GMT -5
Second, get rid of the possibility of Skara as a hometown [snip] c'mon, you can't really mean that you'd disable the first town ever to be offered in a computer-based RPG. you have played the game, haven't you? (i like the fact that a blank disk is required to play. the good old days.)
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farbekrieg
Junior Member
"CCChha cha cha changes, time to change the oil... dont wanna be an oily man.
Posts: 88
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Post by farbekrieg on Nov 30, 2004 12:47:45 GMT -5
That is the fattest bard Ive ever seen.. Jeebus Im surpised he doesnt break that table hes sitting on.
The problems of hometowns is a few fold, namely the way that guards 'assist' townies includeing mobs against out of townies, making killing some mobs slightly more dangerous, and other mobs far easier, if you are a resident of NT ahmads sanct guards will bonzai for you if you get attacked by an aggressive mob.
DTS aside Skara is a very small rarely visited hometown for a reason, its in the middle of nowhere closely surronded by dts (ok i couldnt put the dts aside). My uses for characters living in skara.
1. A place to stab pets in peace with a fountain I could drink out of close by 2. do a where firedragon to see if the bastard had reset yet 3. Thieves who could pick the vault in seiged and the castle doors in ravenna
Yeah thats pretty much it, although Im sure more creative people have better ideas about it.
Reasons for living in NT
1. Mages for onivel 2. naked Ranger to fumble onivel 3. a hold character to put chik fil as on
Midgaard has the xp, best movement rates, healing statues, most mobs, middle of the mud.
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