Experience Formula

[guts]

Does anybody remember the experience formula for multi-remorts? Is it different for remort only classes?

Thanks,
Tim

[Pioneer]

The only thing I remember aboot the exp formula is that at 15 remorts you gain 1/10th regular exp and the first remort doesn't count for remort classes (i.e. substract 1 remort for bards / rangers as far as the number of remort goes for exp gain) so they don't hit 1/10th exp until the 16th remort.

Pio.

[Dank]

Time to implement time/gold valuation of experience.

Here's an experience formula, for you all. Pretty damned simple:

1 xp = ((n remort + 1) x 1 coins)
***1m xp = 1 game hour training lag time

For example:

0 remorts: 1c = 1 xp
...
10 remorts: 11c = 1 xp

Let's implement this idea immediately. Doing so will solve a few issues:

1. Provide a monetary standard for a completely inflated economy.

2. Get rid of silly PAC-MAN style robo exp grouping for perma-veterans. Allow them to get back into serious EQ grouping.

3. Allow veterans to start new characters and get them to a decent level without having to leech.

4. Reduce giant surpluses of cash (EQ purchases would replace trades and the standard). Lotteries would still be another option here.

I wasn't able to add this to my post before Maranta posted, but I suggest providing a training effect, perhaps a game lag (much like the shuttle, the metro, charon or any other forced lag), for each million pts of xp. (one mud hour ~75 seconds in real time)... so, though i envision this as a way for the super rich to spend their extra millions, the normal guy would simply stick to the usual way of xp'ing.

[Maranta]

Certainly its an innovative idea but it will assuredly create some very annoying drawbacks. First of all, people will be running around with squads of heavily eq'd charmies then transfer the gold to the char of choice later for free exp. Kiss your normal exp runs goodbye, especially for those who don't group a lot. Secondly, now clerics have even less of a reason to group or even go quake goblins, shades, sanc city maze, etc.

Sure with your formula it still takes staggering amounts of gold for the higher remorts. The normal gold running rate for a mage/bard taking the better runs is only 3m an hour(give or take)but a mage/bard with solidly eq'd charmies can do twice that easily, more by selling the eq from statues and the like. Just imagine 5 or 6 people with fully'eq pets stomping around the mud killing everything in sight. There won't be anything left for the rest of us besides the low level zones.

two more coppers for the pile,

Maranta

[AirIIDII]

Well first the answers from your formula should be 11 for 0 remorts and 110 coins for 10 remorts based on your formula I think, but I'm no genius.
So for 4 mill exp at 10 remorts that would be 440 mill at 10 remorts. and 44 mill at 0 remorts? I think you would need a different formula.

Second, I know that you all get gold from mobs , but with some of the silly prices asked for eq on auctions sometimes and people actually paying those prices once in a while.
I'd think it would be silly so sell an item for 60 mill and then using money to pay for exp whatver rate it would be. It seems wrong to me, but I would not be opposed to some silly 10 remorted character paying 440 mill at 10 remorts for 4 mill exp . Seems kind of lazy though.
Plus the price of 40 mill seems a bit steep for a newbie/0 remorted character. I'd check your math on your "brilliant idea."

[AirIIDII]

Even at your rate of 1xp =1 coin for 0 remorts and 1xp =100 coins for 10 remorts
I think it's still to much gold to pay.

[Dank]

Sorry, Air, there was a typo in the math. Check it again.

Under my proposed formula, 4m exp would cost 4m for a 0 remort and 44m for a 10 remort char.

Costs for 0 remort characters:

[AirIIDII]

4 mill is too much for a newbie/ 0 remort character unless it's an experienced player with gold already.

[AirIIDII]

Guess they wouldn't have to do that much exp but that's just like for level 29 or so. It seems silly to pay to level to me though.
Also if they group with someone and split 20k they can get 10k exp and plus the exp from the mob too? I think they'd be better off saving up for eq if it actually sold, on auction,
Some People didn't like remorts getting levels faster than newbies during happy hour due to their spell bonuses and
skill bonuses and just better hits, mana, moves, gains

This would just create the same problem of new players not being to compete and begging for help and not being able to find higher exp mobs cause they are killed by more experienced players , not that this doesn't already happen. Garnted it might save the newbies/ new players from getting killed too if not grouped or armored up. I guess they can always run newbie zones , shire, etc and level slow until they are remorted too.

Maybe they'll get lucky on a dieroll and sell something for 60 mill and get from 0 to 2 remorts like that .

[Dank]

airiidii said:

4 mill is too much for a newbie/ 0 remort character unless it's an experienced player with gold already.

Newbies, fortunately, would have to gain xp the old fashioned way, until they built a war chest.

This xp for gold idea benefits the long time player, just like multiple remorts do. If you have a lot of extra gold lying around, this would be a nice alternative to just spending it on re-rolls or lottery tickets.

[Maranta]

And why should a new player be able to compete with someone who has taken the time to build up remorts, eq, game knowledge, etc? Its not like the newbies were killing mobs faster than old timers outside of Happy Hour. If nothing else, HH always brought out a bunch of groups to slaughter mobs as fast as humanly possible for the 50-70min timeframe. I can clearly remember numerous newer players being added so they could get some group time and share in the fun while building up their game knowhow.

[Pioneer]

Eh... always 2 sides to a medal =)... unless of course it's one of my medals, then there's only one side, mine!

Pio.

[AirIIDII]

Well I just think that new players should be helped more. I know that if I have extra eq to share that will help them, they can have it and I show them around some when I can , like the Ninja Pixolet. I just feel that showing people how to play this game of JediMud and having them enjoy it is more important than keeping up with the Jones and having to have the best new quest eq or new eq in general. I just feel that some people are being selfish sometimes and want to be seen with their fancy eq rather than teach and help others. For example, look how many immortals we have on on average these days.

It's not all about leveling and gold. Think of it as being a board game where you are sitting
around a table and playing with friends. Make the game enjoyable for all. If you want to be ultra competative and win all the time ok, but maybe you can donate something good once in a while or give it away instead of always selling it. If you see someone in a zone maybe group with them instead of taking out the rest of the zone on them.

[Maranta]

Said it a hundred times and I'll say it again. If you want to help newbies, upgrade the garbage they're given in the newbie zones. Yes mid-level eq is being designed under Ching's quest, haven't seen any big progress report though. I'm not saying give newbies giant sets of eq so they can pipehit across the newbie zones but ditch the pathetic 1d8 weapons and give them a few things they can carry past level 9 despite the midlevel gear. Until(IF) we have a newbie school, new players can't always be forced to rely on veterans to fill in their various slots since the current gear doesn't even begin to come close. Helping new players will always be an issue here, if only how to go about doing so in the best way possible. Right now our influx of players is down to a trickle and 95% aren't even staying. It takes them ages to get playable stats... that is once someone teaches them about it since the invisible pamphlets in the newbie rooms are of no help. Then most of them are butchered in a newbie zone when they can't even kill a parrot. Give them a little confidence and the means to help themselves instead of shackling them to some cleric who levels them, tosses them wyverns and dwarven rings and drops them back in the temple without ever showing them where the shops are or how to reach the jeweler's shop for some wedding rings.

Write them a hometown map as a physical item(that makes sense, omits nothing and is actually easy to follow)along with a guidebook based off the immortal handbook with basic terminology, channel help, info on stats/rerolling/recreating and just a few general strategies.
A lot of players will turn their noses up at these suggestions but despite what you believe, I have frequented other muds and seen some of the more effective strategies to introduce new players to the game.

two more coppers and more coming!

-Maranta

[guts]

I heard something....

Exp = Exp * 4/(4+#remorts(-1 if remort class))

with a cap at 16 remorts, or 17 for remort classes.

So:

1 - 80%
2 - 66%
3 - 57%
4 - 50%
5 - 44%
6 - 40%
7 - 35.36%
8 - 33%
9 - 30.7%
10 - 28.571%
11 - 26%
12 - 25%
13 - 23.5%
14 - 22%
15 - 21%
16 - 20%

Seems right to me...

[Maranta]

guts said:

I heard something....

Exp = Exp * 4/(4+#remorts(-1 if remort class))

with a cap at 16 remorts, or 17 for remort classes.

So:

1 - 80%
2 - 66%
3 - 57%
4 - 50%
5 - 44%
6 - 40%
7 - 35.36%
8 - 33%
9 - 30.7%
10 - 28.571%
11 - 26%
12 - 25%
13 - 23.5%
14 - 22%
15 - 21%
16 - 20%

Seems right to me...

Even if these figures aren't exactly right, they're close enough as I'm sure most of you can testify to.

Now does anyone else notice something odd here? I keep hearing from those upstairs that getting players to remort is a big issue yet the more I look at these mind boggling figures, the more the statement fails to make any sense. I suppose one can argue that a lack of a coder has prevented any major changes but these figures have been known for years.

Alright enough with the speculation and the rest of the crap. Anyone upstairs concerned with fairness should fix these figures to be more favorable to players. We don't need added discouragement to remort, we need better reasons. With less exp lost, more people will continually remort for longer periods. Does this even begin to unbalance the game? Of course not as the rates are unbalanced as is. Losing 50% of your exp after only 25% of the remorts needed to hit the cap is unfair and no logical reason could exist for it.

Would love to hear some higher up opinions on this and a variety of other postings people have made.

-Maranta

[cunanan]

I tend to agree with Maranta. Especially multi-remort hitter-types. I've found it's extremely difficult and don't really want to waste doing another remort on a char ('cept that I need to because my levels were so horrid). I understand that this exp formula is in place because of power mudders remorting far far to fast. But if we want to keep ppl around, we do need to have more incentives, not less. I've also found that Quests that can be done by everyone that are held daily or every other day keeps ppl around.

[antrus]

I agree with Maranta's take on the situation, and also with Cunanan. The xp loss from remorts isn't as big of a deal to clerics or mages, because the area spells help make up for it so its almost a non-issue... however, running a warrior with anything more than 10 remorts is a serious pain in the ass until you get to level 21. Perhaps one solution could be to up the cost for remorting slightly per remort... 500k per remort, stoping at remort 16, like the xp loss, and in turn, cut down the xp penalty slightly... just an idea.

[Maranta]

I was wondering when someone would mention powermudders. Both Cunanan and Antrus raise good points but I have something further to add. The current formula will slow your decent powermudders down sure but why are they always the issue at hand? Instead of aiming to handicap the top few percent, try looking at the big picture and the remaining 90% of the game's population for a change.

No matter how many big changes to the game are made, powermudders will remain. If you drive off a few, more will rise take their place because thats how it works. Heaping added difficulty on the entire mud to slow down a tiny percentage just isn't the right direction for a game that is supposed to encourage players. All you've done is slow down the average players who are still climbing the ladder, far more than you did those who have put in their time to learn the game, classes, earn their eq, etc.

[antrus]

maranta said:

I was wondering when someone would mention powermudders. Both Cunanan and Antrus raise good points but I have something further to add. The current formula will slow your decent powermudders down sure but why are they always the issue at hand? Instead of aiming to handicap the top few percent, try looking at the big picture and the remaining 90% of the game's population for a change.

No matter how many big changes to the game are made, powermudders will remain. If you drive off a few, more will rise take their place because thats how it works. Heaping added difficulty on the entire mud to slow down a tiny percentage just isn't the right direction for a game that is supposed to encourage players. All you've done is slow down the average players who are still climbing the ladder, far more than you did those who have put in their time to learn the game, classes, earn their eq, etc.

Good point, the "difficulties" that have been added have done nothing to slow down the powermudders, they've just widened the gap between the newer players and the players that had already put in the time and effort to become so called "powermudders" The more difficult you make it to get to that point, the less new players are going to want to try and even make an attempt when those already there have such a head start. Another thing, and yes I know we're straying from the topic now, is that there is a serious lack of high end quest eq, such as multicoloreds, mithril armplates, things like that... anyway, I'm done whining for now :-P

[Tarbal]

i dont think there is a lack of quest eq....there is a LOT of stuff available....you could say there is a lack of quests that give out the higher end stuff though...but if we had a weekly quest giving out a 3dam 1str arm wear (hypothetical quest eq) then everyone would end up with the gear and it would not be all that special....or one person *coughalucardcough* would end up with like 5 or 6 of the higher end items...sure i would like to see more big stuff given out....but i think that too much of a good thing is NOT so good....

does this count as my coppers in the pile??

[antrus]

I wasn't suggesting a weekly CIMP approvable quest for all kinds of artifacts... but the past few months there hasn't even been gauntlets. Also, when mantra ran his quests, most the time people didn't get jack squat because they were so damn hard... but that never stopped people from running, because it was boat loads of fun to see how he had planned to kill us all. And yeah, there is a lot of quest stuff out there, but most people that have it, don't want to trade it, or only want to trade it for other quest stuff... which mostly belongs to only older players. My point was that new people have a hard time getting any of that high end eq, when its never given out...
anyway, i'll quit whining about quests and go back to work :-P

[Maranta]

Again all good points but kinda off topic

Nowadays even gear only eqgroups and such can load is considered trade-only except in a few occasions. Promotions have dropped off considerably and of those promoted, most aren't allowed to move any higher or end up leaving due to the decisions of higher parties. As it stands we have only a fraction of the staff we used to and half of those are inactive or rarely visible which I amount to the same thing. They run the odd quest sure and some make their contributions solely from the immortal world but it still results in less than regular quests and the regular ones typically being for non-quest or common quest items. To make a long story short, we have less people to run quests, both mortal and immortal, even less to approve them and stringent limits on what they can without making the challenge impossible except for top end players or those who have a very good idea of what to expect and can prepare ahead of time and even then both are subject to failure.

Sometimes its not even about the prizes and just about the fun. Deathquests were great for that though there was usually a nice incentive. Mantra's gauntlets were great too as he kept making new mobs or variations of them. It still all boils down to the dwindling playerbase though, regardless of what some may try to claim or pass off as the fault of players. If you disagree, please take the time to make your opinion known instead of just sitting in the dark or pretending all of these discussions don't exist.

the pile of coppers grows but my money pouch is far from empty,

Maranta

[Dank]

Like the brilliant decision to remove rent, it's time to revise some policies for the sake of the popularity of the JediMUD.

(1) remove non-caster remort penalties and reduce caster remort penalties. even the federial government is considering a flat tax to reduce the amount of extreme bullpoop clogging their tax code! and trust me, i didn't use the word bullpoop, either. set a remort reduction cap at no more than 25 percent at the highest end. might be a draw for additional players. word of mouth is good.

(2) allow the purchase of additional remorts

when a character remorts, set a flat price at a remort number (say under 5 remorts, each purchased remort = 50m, 6-10 = 75m, 10+ = 100m) and allow a DEMI+ to push the remort flag after requisite payment.

(3) allow the vending of experience

requires a coder

(4) actively search for an active coder

it's really about time, isn't it? is anyone looking? is it a trust issue? what is the issue with acquiring a new coder, anyway? being on the west coast all these years, i've never been invited into the JEDICLUB to help design the game plan. PA sucks. CA rules. Enough said.

(5) use the MOTD to convey info

nothing like a news blackout to destabilize the country.

(6) ignore everything above

and limp on into oblivion, and quite possibly, death.

[Maranta]

And that helps anyone how? By reducing exp loss to casters, most notibly mage/cleric as you obviously intended, they have an even greater incentive to quake, nuke, WoD, etc. Ahhh yes the non-casters... well no one plays ninja already so why bother to discuss them. Warriors... sure some people are gonna play them but the majority will create a 5-7 to perf char, remort thief as its 20m exp less and soloable with ease, backstab the bloody hell out of the mud(with 1-2 of their ally clerics rotating so they all get exp on their thieves)and then remort wherever once they have max regen, max stats and 16 very fast and easy remorts.

I applaud your constant stream of ideas but this one seems to fall under the category of 'give clerics dhit, wk, critical hit, disarm, wod, inner gateway, etc'

Oh and for anyone who has bothered to read this far, its been announced on gossip several times that a coder HAS been found. Dunno why it took so long but I've got a few theories and none of them are flattering but they run in line with Dank's.