Grapple, a Review and a new look

[Thf]

For a long time Grapple functionality has been a hot debate for change. I believe a bit of change is due for the long time EQ group Grapple standard in order to adapt to a lower profile community and here is my thoughts.

Suggestion
Suggestion is to give grappler back his attack he traditionally loses the round after grapple -- this is huge as it gets warrior back to dhit quicker, allowing small groups of warriors to be a bit more time efficient with damage output. Then distribute the grapple skill to other classes such as Pal/Apal/Jedi/Sohei.

Alternate Suggestion
Completely disable the grapple skill for a trial of allowing another skill such as bash to take its place in a manner such as grapple. Though 2 round grapple ability with no MV cost would be too powerful for new players so I suggest adding a 15 MV cost to bash / a grapple replacement skill and making the delay 3 round lag, 2 round lag with exceptional dex. Cool part about Bash as a grapple replacement is it makes me to contemplate using Pal/Apal/Jedi/Ranger/Sohei as a Tank or a viable member in an EQ group. 

Grapple Review:
Imo there is too much damage fall-off among a 4 char group to kill in an efficient manner using traditional c/w/w/w. This was not always an issue when grapple was created to be at the forefront of EQ runs because back then it was not uncommon to see weekly 8-char EQ runs. 9 times out of 10 today it is a 4-char EQ run with about a 1/10 chance of it being a 6-char run. It makes little sense to have Tank classes without often being able to use them in EQ runs. Bringing in other classes to the EQ run scene while removing damage restrictions imposed by Grapple is perfect for our community.

[Dank]

mob entropy, toss, and step procs were introduced to combat smarter team play in eq collection. as a result, the "grapple" tactic evolved in order to sustain playability for groups of at least three people (six characters under current multiplay rules.)

the point is playability: that is, we play in order to continue to gather upper tier eq in order to contribute to eq gathering efforts. Certainly, if you want to see the entire mud, every zone for the value of the full experience of the area, you'll need to block these "uber" mob proc in order to defeat the "boss" area mobs. So grapple is essential to both eq and discovery goals in the game.

because of the lack of players, i hope that the admin does not disable the solo player ability to effect proc blocking via bash. the ability to block uber procs with bash may have been around for years, but was recently discovered by me after some experimentation. now AP is looking to disable bash from proc blocking.

rather than disable bash from proc blocking, deduct moves from the basher for each attempt, much like shield bash.

over the past few months, i've finally been able to explore the wider mud, load previously unavailable eq, and enjoy the game much more fully than ever before due to the fact that my play style demand that i play solo. i can typically not group due to work demand and time demand.

removing bash entirely will simply preclude my ability to continue enjoying the game the way i like to play it.

with a small playerbase, i would imagine that you would find a way to include all players, not just doom or eq groups that can coordinate group play time.

Dank
Player since 1993
Master of the JediMUD Wiki
jedimud.wikia.com/wiki/JediMUD_Wiki

[Dank]

Continuing the discussion about BASH and the admin's intention to nerf it in order to restore the "old" non-proc blocking behavior:

16: AustinPowers gossips, 'welp i introduced another bug which is fixed on the new server. I have yet to see anyone point it out, but no 2 person crew should take down jupiter or Augustus'

16: AustinPowers gossips, 'no BASH'

16: AustinPowers gossips, 'i never intended to block procs when i fixed that. I unintentionally block the mobile from firing'

16: Tzeentch gossips, 'Whether or not the code was broken is different than stating it wasn't working as inteded'

16: Dank gossips, 'let's be clear: the intent of bash is not clear at all. basically, the implementors set a policy and mete it out. players are not taken into consideration...'

16: Dank gossips, 'if you want us to have a shot at tiny load percentages without having to do a stupid ass grapple chain, then you'll keep a solo bash implementation'

16: Dank gossips, 'if you don't, if you want to hug your tiny eq load rates, then remove solo proc blocking'

16: Dank gossips, 'i think there is a way to keep the solo proc blocking ... just add a cost'

16: Dank gossips, 'grapple is bullpoop... just like step is bullpoop... it's all just a mask for a very poor diku melee implementation'

16: Dank gossips, 'it's just a balance...'

16: Dank gossips, 'but what i've ALWAYS said, is balance it toward the poor smurfers that show up here day after day'

16: Dank gossips, 'yeah you work your ass off to keep the server up. you don't get paid. i get it. but we're here because we want to play. so it's chicken/egg all over again'

16: Dank gossips, 'i'll post this on the jedi proboards, but i doubt it will generate a democratic review...'

16: Dank gossips, 'we have a bizarre situation where kailyn doc and the rest of the whoever they are still somehow hold sway over a live game in absentia'

16: Gwindor gossips, 'my feeling is that since we have a 0 playerbase anyway, mods should go in that allow 2x multi solo t o get previously unattained gear...'

16: Gwindor gossips, 'the load rates are nearly 0 anyway... who cares'

16: Gwindor gossips, 'i mean, you're just pushing us back to squadding... which is a contstruct. !gate areas are beatable with enough effort'

16: Gwindor gossips, 'the point is why make playing this game any more f'ing difficult than it already is?'

[Dank]

To me, a bash (which is weapon-based in this interpretation rather than a shield bash, much like a standard AD&D bash to knock a door down) causes the mob to fall backward into a sitting pose. I'm not sure why it does this. A bash should just be an additional weapon jab prior to a short strike at close range. Because bash knocks the recipient down, in this implementation, it makes sense that the caster (mob) would have casting blocked for a small amount of time. Currently it is two rounds.

To address the issue of bash, you could simply keep the proc and reduce the delay to one round. Bash recovery could remain at two rounds. In any case, proc-firing does not seem to be randomized, but happens as soon as the mob is able, which puts grapple and the grapple chain back at the forefront of player response. This is just an artifact. It doesn't help balance the game. It's like the QWERTY keyboard: an arbitrary yoke on game fluidity and game play. Why do we continue to support group play when we clearly don't have a playerbase to support annoying grapple groups? This return to 1990 flies in the face of the changing game dynamic.

Give the solo 2x multi player some ability to load upper tier items. Stop swaying eq policy toward groups and clans. Allow the solo, high remort, multi-class player the same opportunity to explore the game like the group player. If we had a rich playerbase, I would group. As it is, we don't, but I still want to see every mob in the game, including Doom.

Don't re-s m u r f bash. Just apply a cost and allow us to continue to explore the game in solo multi 2x mode.

[Thf]

Honestly I think the biggest fear of Bash is if people started soloing crash load only mobs in Doom which has only been a clan rivalry war when multiple groups run Doom. Tbh I don't believe they could be solo'd even with bash. I will test it on the test port. Furthermore, crash-load-only anything is like sugar coating rotten food .. longer and more stable uptimes is the way of the future for me, I would be happy to see JediMud part of that. We had a 1 month uptime last December then *poof* its gone when more folks started playing again. 1 year uptimes are possible, I have seen it, just not here.

[Thf]

Due to a the severity of test ports digital diarrhea right now, not happening today. 132.148.71.67:4000

EDIT: Bash does not proc block there. Most cases wont matter if you could possibly solo such mobs because the fight would take so long that cleric and warrior would get swarmed with lizardmen and minotaurs.

[Dank]

ok so it turns out that just keeping a bunch of expensive glows on you solves this issue for most non-stepping mobs. (why are shop glows so expensive?) if you're a cheapskate you could run glows, and many do, but seriously, why make the mud more annoying than it already is.

so that's fine. i still think that facing stepping mobs is really only possible for three player groups (6 chars) due to continued support of the stupid grapple cheat. and yeah, if bash is a cheat, then grapple is a cheat. It's just a group cheat instead of a solo cheat.