Re: Funny Thing About Equipment

[ching]

It is a simple thing of "playing the game code" v.s. "playing in character." After all, you don't have to remove the 4 rainbows your 2 clerics in a power group have to reset Kermit, but it helps if you want to actually get one rainbow charm. That and to stop crash running is a reason I changed my statue to "load on death" procs, and adjusted the load % rate of course.

[pixie]

ching said:

It is a simple thing of "playing the game code" v.s. "playing in character." After all, you don't have to remove the 4 rainbows your 2 clerics in a power group have to reset Kermit, but it helps if you want to actually get one rainbow charm. That and to stop crash running is a reason I changed my statue to "load on death" procs, and adjusted the load % rate of course.

I think I personally would rather have in character role playing more used/enforced, and see lowered rates on load on death procs for more eq, I am not sure, but I am guessing you can still do a daisey chain load on load on death, put a controll room with a %load of a mob who allows the daisy chain to start in zones where small eq load is desired.

5 % mob <a> load in room z, for eq <x> to have any chance to drop from mob <y>. Assuming you can somehow set room <a> to purge when mob <y> is killed. or just let it purge/reset every zone reset.

cool advantages:
You wouldnt be able to just run about looking at mobs on crashes etc.

Less game mechanics figuring, more roleplaying.

The more invisible the mechanics, the more imersive the game (generally)

think it would be doable anyhow.

I think I said it elsewhere, but if y'all are going for an immersive environment, the superbowl, work/personal issues and coding probably should not be discussed on the game channels, expecially global channels.

[Arizhel]

Vote said:

I think I personally would rather have in character role playing more used/enforced, and see lowered rates on load on death procs for more eq, I am not sure, but I am guessing you can still do a daisey chain load on load on death, put a controll room with a %load of a mob who allows the daisy chain to start in zones where small eq load is desired.

5 % mob <a> load in room z, for eq <x> to have any chance to drop from mob <y>. Assuming you can somehow set room <a> to purge when mob <y> is killed. or just let it purge/reset every zone reset.

cool advantages:
You wouldnt be able to just run about looking at mobs on crashes etc.

Less game mechanics figuring, more roleplaying.

The more invisible the mechanics, the more imersive the game (generally)

think it would be doable anyhow.

I think I said it elsewhere, but if y'all are going for an immersive environment, the superbowl, work/personal issues and coding probably should not be discussed on the game channels, expecially global channels.

IIRC, load_on_death is just a straight-up percentage. I'm pretty sure it doesn't even check the number in game.

Anyhow.. to hop topics, I don't see global channels going the way of the dodo anytime soon. I like my gossip channel, thankyouverymuch.

[CrazyCorb]

[farbekrieg]

If im reading the responses right, or the lack there of, item load limits are here to stay. If this is the case Id like to petition that the idea be reconsidered.

So let me get this straight, if a couple of ancient players are on with their broaches, standards, dragon rings, diadems, BOs etc, then new are players are pretty much SOL as to trying to load their own high end equipment? Because someone else, perhaps not even someone in their group has the desired item over the limit? They will have to log in at bizarre hours of the night when they should be sleeping going to school/work etc to even have a chance to get yonder high end item?

Admittedly some players when asked are very nice about logging items, others are not so nice, and will say they are entitled to idle at location A for hours on end because that is how they play.

Sure for items with a reasonable load limit with enough begging etc you can indeed eventually sometimes get under the limit, however other items are limit 1, in which case yer just plain screwed.

Load limits, back when it was possible to run gear with mages, was the number one reason I would run naked mages, because transferring equipment off/on players is time consuming and expensive. Because on my standard equipment for my warrior would require switching out his lbolt, diadem/lcrown, phearts, bos, broach or on my cleric removing philo charms coiled ring broach arcanes, thus upping the number of peices of equipment i need to own. ORRR simply run a naked mage ranger out there and turn them into ash. And yet when this far simpler option was taken, there was an outcry of, ohh my god why are people using naked mages. /duh

This arguement I would like to add to augment my initial arguement of, why on earth should I take off my best equipment to kill top end mobs, shouldnt I want to bring my best stuff with me (assuming I dont want to jump into a DT with it).

Because I dont want to fight computer restrictions, rather I want to fight big mobs when I play, and forced equipment switching is a hinderance to doing so. Its not like the majority of said items dont have a 5% chance or less of loading.

[Aneyou]

Farb, you know this makes sense, and I know this makes sense, but why even post about it? You know Ciara is going to reply by saying, "Just to cut this thread short, load limits are not and will not be taken away."
That mindset, as well as the way in which things(like that) are said, is the reason I no longer play Jedi(unless Im on talking to someone or bored crazy) and will never play it again.

[farbekrieg]

Farb, you know this makes sense, and I know this makes sense, but why even post about it?

Admittedly this is slighted to a specific vision of how to have the most fun while mudding, and fun for me (and you apperantly) means the ability to actually load an item reguardless of who is currently on. This does not match everyones Idea of fun however. As far as making sense its debatable it depends how rare you wish to make items.

My point is if there really is a push to become more equitable to newbies should mean that old fart #1 who got their GGS off a red sash shouldnt be able to block them from getting theirs from killing the red dragon. Its a differance of opinions I guess. I just want the other opinion heard.

Perhaps its because the insanely low rate of having to kill the fire dragon 40-50x to get an item is considered too easy (let alone one for everyone in the group), its tough to say, and perhaps the fear is that the content available is so limited that further restrictions on items loads are required or else everyone will have everything. A valid concern I suppose, particularly while so many mobs are considered 'easy' by the admin.

You know Ciara is going to reply by saying, "Just to cut this thread short, load limits are not and will not be taken away."

I dont know that, while I certainly suspect such is the conclusion of the admin. The point being at some point some admin weisenheimer in the future will say, we asked for you mortals input and you gave none, you brought this upon yourselves. And just like the last time a borish admin told me that, I can respond (again) that I have volunteered a myriad of ideas, and you guys refuse to listen.

Additionally I played for free at jedi mud, and while occassionally maltreated was on for about 6 years and enjoyed much of it, I feel some obligation to repay my time by offering suggestions to improve the game for people that will come after me.

..will never play it again.

There is a group of people who have left with that kind of mindset, and the admin never gets to hear the reasons that group of players left (longtime players who have become fed up for one reason or another like Mal Grim Me Corb etc). Leaving the admin without the ability to find out why those players left, or to know about the problems that caused them to leave and to rectify them, I like to think Im giving them that oppertunity, now if they want the oppertunity is another question entirely, the majority of the problems I have brought to the attention of various admin are dismissed as either fabrications or me trying to carry out an unjust vendetta. Que sera I guess.

[Asdi]

so why dont we have some mobs loads on death? I see that ching's statue was changed without anything happening to anything at all. If Ching, you can not convince some of the mobs to be converted, I dont think others can do any better than you. I do think that most people on the mud likes to see at least SOME mobs to load on death, regardless of the limits in game.

[Maranta]

Just re-reading this thread while the mud is down and I gotta say, I agree completely with the load on death changes. For some areas of the game that are barely run, it could force people to get off their collective asses and actually do some work.

The pagoda, for example, would be an ideal place to implement the change. The reset time is the longest in the entire mud but the items are well worth it. If one of the bigger pieces happens to load on a new uptime, inevitably a group will retrieve it but leave all the other mobs alone. I'd much rather see groups having to take the time to kill every one of them for a chance at a load instead of the whole dash in, kill, dieroll and dash out. The value of the items would undoubtably improve and at the same time it could finally force players to work for the eq instead of waiting for a lucky uptime.

couple of coppers for the pile
-Mar

[Tarbal]

i like using the load on death proc. its kinda like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are gunna get....but then we run into the problem of limits. they are there for a reason, to make things harder to get...one of the challenges to runnin an eq group is getting players who have decently eq'd chars without blocking the items that you want to run....load on death for things like philo or arcanes would mean more eq groups would run those items at any time of the day, regardless of who is on...but then those items would either become so numerous that their value would fall into the pits of h311, or the load rate would be so ridiculously low that you would have to run them 100 times to get one load.....i dunno.....i have not had much coffee yet this morning, so my thinking may be flawed......just more food for thought

mike

[Maranta]

You're completely right though. Either the value will go to hell in a handbasket or it'll require so much effort to get anything to load, no one will run it.

However if more selective mobs were used, it could easily remedy the problem. Namely DOOM(for some specific items), the pagoda and some of the other limit 1 item loading mobs who shall remain nameless.

[Tarbal]

like the mobs that take an insane effort to get to anyways....stuff that a normal eq group just does not run

[Maranta]

Exactly. Leave the normal mobs like Andrus, Count, Kermit, Jupiter, Zeus, etc. completely alone. Take the harder ones such as Ogaan, Algodon, etc. and give'em the load_on_death proc so theres always a reason to grab a group and lay into them. Adding some load_on_death procs to DOOM might actually revive grouping in there instead of the naked mage maddash.

[Rox]

Ditto to that idea. I love the load on death proc....it's like Christmas when you never what your gonna get...if any

[Arizhel]

Load limits are a useful tool in limiting the amount of a specific item in the game. Do I think some of them are currently set too low? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't looked over the data in question, realistically, cause it's not my sphere of influence.** I know that I use load limits extensively in writing the new brand of holiday quests, and it wouldn't function very well without them. I myself wouldn't want to see them go the way of the dodo, when all's said and done, and that's not[/b] because I want to see less things in the game. I'm a mort too, when the fancy strikes me, whether you all believe it or not.








**Nobody is really sure what my sphere of influence actually is, but it seems to include cheese, verbose descriptions, and notoriously short-notice GOD level quests.

[Tarbal]

do you use load limits or just percentages? i guess limits would be cute, but then if someone just held all the control pieces in inventory then it would block further loads for other people. then again....that would keep us from being swamped with like 30 +20 DAM instruments!!!

*why do i feel like i am arguing with myself in my own post?*

**cuz you are!! f001**

[Arizhel]

tarbal said:

do you use load limits or just percentages? i guess limits would be cute, but then if someone just held all the control pieces in inventory then it would block further loads for other people.

It would also block further loads for them, which is counterproductive.

As for the inner workings of the quest... Go fish. I've already told you more than I ought to, though probably not more than people have guessed already.

[guts]

Why not have both?

Load regular equipment on a percentage load as it is now and then just add a ridiculously low load on death for all items?

Current load percentages need not be touched.

[Maranta]

Because it could be the current load percentage is actually LOWER than the load on death ever could be without basing it off multiple load on death items. I'm sure someone down the line will start using both to add more or different items to the game but right now its just another measure of control to keep players from getting more items. Considering how crippled our playerbase though, its a measure 5 years out of date since very few items are over the limit anymore and half of those were always over the limit to begin with!

[elveron]

I don't know why I am reading the boards tonight, I do like the death procedure. It is one of the reason I run Aglandiir so much when bored just to see if I get lucky.

To go even further you could make it similar to Christmas quest where you have to be grouped even to get the load prob to work (say in Doom???) that way naked mages can't run Doom and you need a group.

Just a thought if you want to see groups in Doom again, granted I know very little about Doom so feel free to call me crazy.

[Maranta]

Well that certainly is a thought. But that'd require someone to be interesting in changing DOOM, willing to consider changes, blah blah blee blah. The really assinine part is for every change they make specifically targetting mages and to an extent, soheis, people just find other ways to run it. I've said this so many times and I keep having to say it. Instead of wasting time and effort trying to hamper players with "challenge", put the work into expanding the mud, revising classes for when we DO have a coder who isn't buried under a To-Do list a mile high, etc.

For every 1 admin trying to handicap players, there are -10- finding creative solutions around it! Take a hint already!

[Arizhel]

maranta said:

For every 1 admin trying to handicap players, there are -10- finding creative solutions around it! Take a hint already!

Quite.

Contrary to popular belief, we're not about hampering players.

I'm rather in the 'creative solutions' camp myself.

[relantel]

This is a dumb question - but "load_on_death" chance - does that refer to when a mob is killed, that a piece of eq may load on the next repop of that mob?

[Tarbal]

it means when the mob dies, there will be % chance of it 'dropping an item'.....yes....it litterally 'drops' the item onto the floor of the room......

[Mal]

I really like this idea. It means, as an eq group, from the get go, you actually have a chance of loading something, even if you only run one reset of all the mobs you want to run. Which I think is absolutely great. It also means, you don't have to sit around and wait for everything to reset so you can go to sleep at a sane hour. Also, very very good. I had to stay up an extra 30 minutes just to make sure everything loaded naked in upper uni (and of course it did). I could have left, and came back to it later. Of course, that runs the risk of having your item, say a philo *cough* Narr, run by someone else.

You should also be allowed to wear your best eq to run eq, it makes sense!