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Post by Arizhel on Mar 31, 2004 22:50:35 GMT -5
Force Storm - a weak earthquake style attack, very cool (J18 recommended) Leap - A 2 tic non-stackable fly, temporary empowerment so to speak Suggestion - So worthless that you shouldn't waste the time and effort. Ok.. in order A force storm is an incredibly powerful thing. The Emperor had difficulty with them. J18 seems a bit low. A leap that lasts two ticks? That's a helluva hangtime! Suggestion -- why not make it worthwhile instead of writing it off as worthless? Nothing is sacred during the class review, and a few classes will probably end up getting completely rewritten. So, what's the problem if one skill gets useful again?
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Post by ching on Apr 2, 2004 23:57:34 GMT -5
Sure, I used to solo the jedi parts with my jedi. Of course using ALL the skills a jedi has. Things like, "hello nice walking diamond, you tank, and these nice trees will help out." Which is why a Jedi should like a high chrisma. Espcially if you get some cleric in a can to help out your group. A sancted diamond golem, with armor, and vestment (red armor potion, and red clay jar) really can take quite a bit of damage. You can heal your tanking pets also. Just don't forget to recharm them after you ungroup them etc, before they wander off. Jedi is a very large world with many options, learn to use them all.
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Post by Dank on Apr 3, 2004 13:25:37 GMT -5
experience for the light sabre.
here, i'll say it again, like some stupid radio ad:
experience for the light sabre.
ok wait, now i'll use my jedi mind wipe:
experience for the light sabre.
track experience gain while using the weapon and let it grow more powerful over time. off align kills subtract from total experience.
muhhahahaha!
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Post by DaHart85 on Apr 5, 2004 15:14:47 GMT -5
"Ok.. in order A force storm is an incredibly powerful thing. The Emperor had difficulty with them. J18 seems a bit low.
A leap that lasts two ticks? That's a helluva hangtime!
Suggestion -- why not make it worthwhile instead of writing it off as worthless? Nothing is sacred during the class review, and a few classes will probably end up getting completely rewritten. So, what's the problem if one skill gets useful again?" -Arie
Force storm - I already think that earthquake does too much damage, so i was talking weak compared to its current damage, or perhaps equal and lower earthquake
Leap - You can always change the name, just an idea of a minimal fly :-)
Suggestion - I don't know enough about the skill to make even a moderate opinion as to how to fix it. :-)
I am also curious as to what you (arie) especially thought about the rest of the ideas as well because I know I have seen you play jedi several times over and are fairly knowledgable about the class. I am just wondering if some of my ideas are totally off-base or whatcha think about them.
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Post by Dank on Apr 5, 2004 15:52:19 GMT -5
as far as eq and experience goes, i'd love to see it across all classes. the data would be stored as a handful of bytes with your inventory list. might be a massive headache. haven't seen the code.
of course, each piece of equipment with this attribute would have a cap. once you reached max xp for a weapon, piece of armor, you would stop accruing xp for that item. these numbers could be relatively high, so that max effect stas on an item would be a unique and wondrous thing.
now as far a jedis go..
ask yourself, what would yoda do? or similarly: what would obi-wan kenobi do?
these are the ultimate litmus tests, 'nuff said.
here's an idea.
i would love to see a high level jedi auto-skill that would allow a jedi to come back to life if killed in battle. you would return as a ghost, of course, until a cleric performed a resurrect.
it would work this way:
you die. your hps instantly return to your natural hp state. your thac0 is reduced by the same number as if the attacking mob was blinded. your physical damage attack is reduced to 0, though you would still be able to cast.
this would allow you to extricate yourself from a tight situation, say at level 28, and get back home where you'd still need either a heal or resurrect to get your physical damage attack back. think ben kenobi in episode 4.
of course, old obi wan never did return to his physical form. couldn't find a damned cleric, i guess.
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Post by Tether on Apr 6, 2004 23:26:38 GMT -5
Jedi Mind Trick - Works similar to PFE/PFG Force Run - Movement costs halved Lightsaber Throw - Special combat technique...could use the circle effect for one round or something like that Force Pancake - Makes delicious pancakes
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Post by ProtoClown on Apr 7, 2004 0:47:15 GMT -5
Force Pancake - Makes delicious pancakes But as we all know, Force Pancakes are not at all delicious without Darth Jemima's Force Pancake Syrup.
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Sobe
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Post by Sobe on Apr 9, 2004 0:26:38 GMT -5
I personally like the jedi class as it is, but i do have some comments. - Jedi being able to rescue people during a fight. So that us good Jedi could really be heroes and take the damage for someone else. - Jedi being able to fly as said above would be very useful. So we wouldn't run out of movement so quickly, though i can live without this. - Being able to pull something from some creature's inventory or hands would be very cool. - Making the lightsabers have different stats according to the colors would make more sense to me. - Some more jedi only equipment, especially in the starwars zone would be helpful. And it doesn't have to be super powerful or anything, because low level jedi have a heck of a time til they can get a saber. - Get the mud back up because i'm needing a fix
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October
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I wish for little fish
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Post by October on May 1, 2004 21:56:58 GMT -5
Why are good jedis considered to be superior to evil jedis? Is it because the good jedi eventually gets heal? (Is jedis or jedi the plural form of jedi?)
Evil is the only way to go for me- I'm going to level October until he gets charm and then have him retire into a job where he can use the force to sell Daewoos. Mid also needs a used car lot, some of those cityguards and janitors have a long commute. Maybe I'll open one of those check cashing places next to the bank for people who are short on rent. I wonder- is being a pimp out of the question? I bet that there is demand out there somewhere for hot bot on bot action.
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Post by Arizhel on May 2, 2004 13:17:41 GMT -5
I would like to add to daharts thoughts that SW is not the game we are emulating here, namely we dont even have an emperor, so i dont see how he could have issues with a force storm. 2ndly if he did maybe he had a super high cha/int/wis/level all near 30 which caused all that damage, and in the hands of a simple padawan type force storm does moderate damage? Why not, 18 doesnt seem like a terrible level to give jedis area affects, my question with the spell would be more along the lines of do we want another class with earthquake/firestorm skills? If you wanted a jedi type fly skill call it levitate and make it burn 1 mana every other square or so, but apply to everyone in the jedis group. Theory being movement affects should really be restricted to remort classes (cleric is another ball of wax all together) The whole idea with saying that the Emperor had issues with creating force storms was simply to say that a padawan wouldn't be able to marshal the powers necessary to create one. And, if by some off chance, he did manage to, it would simply rip him apart. Honestly, not every class needs an area effect. As it is, far too many of them have area effects, at least imho. Powerful area spells should be reserved for mages. Clerics should probably be next in line. After that, I can see maybe dark jedi having one at a high level. Maybe my definition of high level is different from yours. I consider 25+ to be 'high level', simply because level 24-25 is approx. half of the exp needed to remort. The comment about leap was a joke. I don't think it is a bad idea, actually. The name could definitely use some work though....
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Post by Arizhel on May 2, 2004 20:19:07 GMT -5
So, what, if you have 30 remorts, level 10 is considered 'high level'? No matter how many remorts you have, level 24-25 (somewhere in there, anyway) is approximately halfway to immortality. You're also forgetting the vast portion of the populace that has many different characters, which may or may not have many, if any, remorts. I'm sticking to my guns here when I say that I absolutely, positively will NEVER agree with the concept of catering to the multi-remort character as the 'average'. This leads to a gradual but unstoppable 'creep', which after a certain point, makes it impossible for newbies to get a foothold in the game. Force lightning is also very much different from a force storm. Perhaps Tam can enlighten us on that one, as he's the resident Star Wars junkie. Clerics, in my experience, are the 2nd-best spellcasters, right after mages. Sohei as currently defined are pretty much a joke, so we won't even go there. Antipaladins are aimed more at personal buffs than outright damage spells, and don't actually have any area effect spells. Jedi need some work too. When was the last time you saw a jedi cast flamestrike?
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Tam
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Post by Tam on May 2, 2004 20:27:58 GMT -5
Force lightning is also very much different from a force storm. Perhaps Tam can enlighten us on that one, as he's the resident Star Wars junkie. Well, there's a minor difference between the 2. See, force lightning is what you saw the Emperor and Dooku doing. This is a bunch of high voltage sparks coming from the hands of the "bad guy". A force storm is a "chaotic distortion of space-time" (starwars.com). The Emperor used to create these massive monsters in space so that they would engulf entire fleets of ships in a matter of moments. So, you could say the 2 levels of difficulty are every so slightly different. -Tam
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Tam
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Post by Tam on May 3, 2004 9:21:31 GMT -5
Welp, I only wanted to toss a couple things into the mix. Like sohei and ninja, we experienced some real inconsistancy when we started looking over jedi. It seemed like many of the skills used were just duplicates of other classes. So, I'll quote the words of Doc, when this project started. "Nothing is sacred."
Jedi need just as much revision as the sohei and we plan on doing just that. As stated earlier on, we plan on taking each class, throwing out the duplicated skills, and rebuilding from there. If we add some of the old stuff in, we'll do it but it'll be in a reserved way. (To avoid everyone and their brother having things even as simple as kick.)
I like the idea of deminishing power as the alignment drops. That might be something cool to add to make the class a little more unique. In the case of paladins, they tend to fall from grace though one unthoughtful act. With jedi, it seems they get into a gradual progression to the other side (no matter which side they're starting on).
Maybe instead of segmenting the class into 2 parts so much, maybe there's some blurry middle (similar to what you see in the movies and read in the books). While a jedi might be incredibly powerful with the "jedi skills" at 1000, he might have a less potent version of some skills at 0 align. On the other hand, at 0 align he's become a fence sitter and might be inclined to use some more nefarious jedi abilities (still at a lower potency). This kind of relates to the progression that folks like Anakin an Ulik Quel Droma (sp?) followed. -- I dunno, just a thought.
NOTE: the last paragraph is just an idea that popped into my head and has no current bearing on the class rev team.
Another thing that hasn't been mentioned in a very long time that might enrich jedi is the expansion of the lightsabers. You're right in stating that one of the first steps in becoming a jedi is learning to make your own saber. As most people know, sabers are made from parts and can be customized in many ways. So, maybe there's an ability to make a smaller, light-weight saber that isn't as potent but can be used at lower levels. Maybe there's 2 or 3 that can be used into the mid-levels. Maybe the more advanced sabers require you to find the right crystal for the right color of the saber, thereby giving you the ability to not only pick colors but to actually pick sabers of different stats. *shrug* -- Again, just a thought.
Anyhow, we haven't started laying the groundwork just yet for jedi, sooooo we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I just thought I'd toss in a couple things.
-Tam
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Post by Arizhel on May 3, 2004 21:16:28 GMT -5
Many of the points in your post are points that we intend to address during the revision of jedi. Some of them will be addressed during the review of other classes as well. + Should Jedi actually have the heal spell? + Why is a lightsaber ml 14, when saber assembly is level 25? + Why is orb level 17, and sanctuary is level 15? + Why -can't- a good jedi rescue someone that's under attack? + Why in the heck do evil jedi have flamestrike instead of force lightning? + Why do good jedi get cure light before paladins? + Why exactly do jedi have locate object? Etc, etc, ad nauseam. As of now, the answer is basically: hell if I know, so why don't we change it?
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Post by Arizhel on May 6, 2004 6:19:32 GMT -5
Everything will have to be playtested, so some people will, yes. It all depends on who is on when we need to playtest, I suppose.
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Post by DaHart85 on May 9, 2004 6:46:58 GMT -5
+ Should Jedi actually have the heal spell? + Why is a lightsaber ml 14, when saber assembly is level 25? + Why is orb level 17, and sanctuary is level 15? + Why -can't- a good jedi rescue someone that's under attack? + Why in the heck do evil jedi have flamestrike instead of force lightning? + Why do good jedi get cure light before paladins? + Why exactly do jedi have locate object? Etc, etc, ad nauseam. Heal spell? Definately. Lightsaber ml 14? Because there is very little other gear you can upgrade until level 20ish. Orb is level 17 because it can be combined with sanctuary. Jedi have rescue? They should, I have always wondered why they didn't. Evil = flamestrike? no clue cure light before paladins? Paladins must earn their powers from deities, jedi must learn to control what already exists. Locate? The "Force" lets them know where things are and such. Personally I think they should have locate and a form of "scan" since that is what tend to be good at. As for giant posts, I didn't read squat on most of those, I skimmed them. So if some of these points were already made, oh well, I am just not bored enough to read all that squabbling ;-) EDIT: Lightsaber ml 14 and saber assembly 25? Probably because a jedi's lightsaber typically was made for them by an experienced jedi or it was handed down to them?? No clue, just an idea.
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Post by Cyreall on Jun 26, 2004 21:24:47 GMT -5
Some ideas I have about the Jedi class. 1. Double bladed lightsaber: Make it to where you have to load double the parts or extra parts but have those parts !rent. Or you could just make it Evil only seeing in how in the movie only Darth Maul had one and most of the ones from the books were from the Sith. 2. The power crystals: Red crystal +2 dam, -1 int, -1 dex !Good Blue crystal +2 dam, -1 int, -1 dex !Evil Green crystal +1 wis, +1 int !Evil Yellow crystal +1 dam Purple crystal +1 dam These two will make the lightsabers harder to make because you have to find the crystals. However you can change out the crystals if you want to better your situation. 3. Im not sure which armor Jedi can use but in the books and movies they cant at all. I know there are Jedi robes in the game but make it to where they get better robes as they go up say every 5-10 lvs from their Guild masters? Thanks for you time
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Post by Cordelia on Aug 2, 2004 7:35:47 GMT -5
First, second and third that suggestion. The align factor should only come into play in specific circumstances either:
(1) Before a Jedi has chosen thier path i.e. if thier align is beneath say, 350+/350-
(2) Once thier align exceeds a ceiling e.g. 350+/350- and a level cap, then they should be locked into that alignment.
Alignment locking: Anti-Paladin and Paladin spells are alignment based i.e. work only above a threshold, this should happen to Jedi's above a certain level. The further one strays from one's chosen path, the more severe the penalties.
** I don't wish to go down the whole 'redemption' route, as I merely exploring Dank's initial idea which has a lot of merit. I do like the idea of gradation i.e. a sliding scale rather than an absolute. It fits especially well with alignment based classes.
Having previously played a Jedi and now firmly stuck with the Anti-Paladin classes, there is precious little role-play or difference in approach other than keep align above a certain level otherwise no access to spells and the occasional zapping from EQ. Ho hum.
Unless you're a newbie, or are in the midst of an EXP run and are not keeping track of alignment, it's all too easy to keep one's align above a certain level.
Perhaps maybe extend Dank's idea to apply to all alignment based classes i.e. skills and spells become more powerful based on alignment, whilst also becoming weaker as alignment moves further away from the poles. Again, it's the principle rather than the actual mechanics that needs to be explored at this date.
Regards, Cordelia
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Post by relantel on Apr 4, 2008 12:09:05 GMT -5
This thread was an interesting read - I admit I haven't played my J28 much other than running krrfs off of Lady Amoli of late, and other basic low-level char eq (wyvern bracelets, jeweled scimitars, etc)
What were the final revisions? I don't quite remember what they were before the revisions, though my J28 was created in Feb 2004. I know heal stayed in, as did locate object. And the last time I ran the saber parts I near got killed trying to solo. (And the saber I have was bought)
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Post by Maranta on Apr 4, 2008 12:38:41 GMT -5
What revisions? They only got through Paladins and A-Pals before it fell apart and even just mentioning class revisions to most admins causes them to go invisible... that is IF they're actually visible and you can find them.
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Post by relantel on Apr 4, 2008 12:41:06 GMT -5
Oh. I didn't know that. I just assumed they had been done - I spent most of mid 2004 through early 2006 in cryo
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Simba
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Post by Simba on Dec 30, 2008 21:19:41 GMT -5
How about neutral jedi able to do both light & dark, or come up with some skills for them? It seems like neutral should be the way to go for jedi since it is the balance of the force.
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Mal
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Post by Mal on Jan 7, 2009 18:37:36 GMT -5
Or remove neutral altogether +0 to +1000 good, -1 to -1000 evil - but that's probably too much work. Another idea make a neutral jedi able to use any jedi skills/spells 5 levels below their current level. This leaves a reason for a jedi to be 'lured' over to either side by the greater skills/spells associated to the particular alignment.
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Post by Dank on Jan 10, 2009 15:29:57 GMT -5
Fools! You know nothing of the ways of the Jedi. After having studied for years with the Jedi Masters, I am the only voice that should be heard in the case of the Jedi class. 1. Jedis should be a remort class. 2. The Star Wars zone should be expanded immediately, in lieu of silly zones like the Asylum, Refuge and the Emerald Maze. I mean, seriously? Put Gonfalon on something worthwhile like a spec update to Star Wars. He can do it. He can do anything. 3. Jedis need at least three debuffs that are akin to bard/ranger debuffs. A -THAC0 modifier for mobs, an inspire-like spell, and a cool self-buffer 'speed', which is basically a timed 3x hit 29lev spell. Triple hitting, glowed, orbed tank would be damned cool. 4. Add Star Wars hooks to all major cities... like the pet shops (which nobody uses thanks to a continuing bug in the pet code)... you'd have little portals to SW. I mean, leave the shuttle in there, but add off-planet zones to the route. Let Gonfalon code those, too. He can do it. 5. While you're at it, select a lead BLDR who will actively begin building this crap. Fire the existing zone cohort and everyone else involved with zone building and planning over the last 10 years. 6. Allow jedis to function while blind. Duh. 7. Create a new remort spell for jedis which is effectively an area lightning spell, doing fission bomb style damage to ungrouped mobs. 8. Give jedis the hold spell. 9. Disable all spells while a jedi is neutral. If you're a neutral jedi, you're just a dumbass warrior. 10. Give jedis the same skill that pals/apal have in order to slow alignment change if at 1000 or -1000. Now begone! I must return to my pow-wow with George.
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Post by Tarbal on Jan 11, 2009 7:11:06 GMT -5
point 1 - i agree completely....they should be an UBER remort class
point 2 - while i agree that we do need to expand on SW and add more SW themed stuff....i do NOT agree that the other zones listed are a waste of time....EVERY zone that gets added adds something to the game...whether it is a super zone or just a small flavor zone....the mud needs change...then when someone takes their time to make changes, we cannot simply say that they wasted their time doing it....i give mad props to the guys that have worked to get the new zones in....good job!
point 3 - i dont know about trip hit....that is a LOT of damage in one round....maybe a very limited (like 5%) chance of trip hit....i dont think that dhit is out of the question though.....
point 4 - eh....no opinion/comment
point 5 - see point 4
point 6 - agree....but with a lower chance of success on targeted skills/spells
point 7 - agree....but with the following mods: lightning bolts were generally used by Sith...Jedi's just pulled stuff off the walls and flung it at the bad guys.....so maybe an align based spell??
point 8 - hmmmm....why? i dont get it....
point 9 - see point 4
point 10 - dont jedis already have slow align changes? and to my knowledge, apals dont have anything to slow down align change....just paladins can affect alignment for themselves and others
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