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Post by gambler on Aug 18, 2010 9:30:31 GMT -5
I've been requested to start a discussion on gold and the uses for it. Here are some starter 'ideas'. Feel free to add or comment! With 6.0 imminent, and 6.1 right around the corner, I would expect that even outlandish ideas may now be codeable, so we all need to do some thinking outside of the box.
1) Upgradeable Equipment
For a fee, the tinker will upgrade any non-quest (includes constructables) in-game loading equipment up to, but not exceeding the maximum for that slot and class. Guidelines would mirror building and arcadian guidelines, but are at the discretion of the current head builder. I won't post the full menu unless there is interest (and ultimately approval), but here are some examples.
Upgrade armor class by 5ac: 10M gold
Add +1 to any stat: 40M gold
Add +1 to hitroll: 20M gold
Add +1 to any regen: 30M gold
Add +5 to hp/mana/mv: 20M gold
Add perma effect (limited): 20M-100M range
2) Weapon upgrades at Tinker
Modifyers would not be allowed for weaponry. However, I think its high time that we allow minor spell firing to occur when swinging weapons. For a fee, the tinker would magically fuse your weapon with magical properties, allowing the weapon to fire magical damage spells. Results could potentially be... unpredicatable... Here are some examples:
Weapon: a sword of the protector
Spell: magic missile
Firing rate: 40%
Chance of backfire: 10%
Cost: 25M
This is a single idea of hundreds of possibilities, but would add some new uniqueness to the game. Weapons could be limited to non-enchanted or GLOW/LIMITED flags. It's open to discuss.
3) Cross-training
A master-of-trades would be inserted into the game as a wandering rogue and available to train a single character ONE additional skill/spell... ONCE per uptime. It could be a subzone or part of a quest or simple a wandering mob. The master would be able to cross-train skills outside of their own class, with the exception of those skills/spells that make the other class 'unique'.
For instance, disarm, double hit, weapons knowledge, fumble, mana channel, inspire, fly, petrify would be skills that may not be allowed to cross train in. However, adding cross training skills would make for a unique character base. Here are some examples:
Warrior cross-trained in: Cure Critic - 25M
Infravision - 10M
Create Food -5M
Mage cross-trained in: Pound - 5M
Obviously, a warrior would not get the spell bonuses that the natural cleric/mage class may get, and they already limited to only having around 130 mana. A hybrid class would be tough to play because little regen is available, and most of the damage equipment has negative mods to int, wis, ect ect. It would still be fun to see a dying warrior peel off a color spray once in a while!! I'm not opposed to seeing some better skills/spells available to cross-train, but the expense would need to be hefty... in the 100M range.
I also think that 5 or so NEW skills/spells should be available to train in. These could be available to any class, or class specific, but must be purchased. Here are some examples.
Flee without experience loss: 20M
Death without experience loss: 40M
Group Saviour skill: 50M
This skill would consume all current mana/move/hps and safely remove the entire group from battle to 'home'.
Double-backstab: 50M (thief only)
Double-fire (spells/skills): 100M
Enhanced magic: 50M (adds 15% to effectiveness)
Corpse retreival: 25M (self only)
4) Purchasable modifyers:
Hunger or Thirst set to -1: Cost - 40M gold (each)
5) Insurance Salesman
Allows character to insure item(s) for a set fee based on value.
The insurance would permanently guard a single item (even if it's traded) against loss from crash-death, junk, dump, or DT.
In game (non-limited): 10M
In game (LIMITED): 30M
In game (Qst,afd,doom): 40M
Quest (God/Holiday: 50M
Artifact: 60M
6) Gambling: Discuss!! I think we should have a casino zone with a 90% payback... but opportunity to 'hit it big'.
7) Buyable single stats: It's been a LONG-TIME annoyance to have to conduct an entire remort to gain a single stat to complete a character. I would suggest for the fee... that the Phrenologist can 'sell' a single stat to those characters wishing to complete (not to exceed 18). Cost would be 25M.
8) Rentable Portals: The idea is that certain zones may be accessable directly through a rentable portal. These could be limited to experience zones or to any zone (but access point not to be past a blocking mob or locked door). I realize this is the 'lazy-mans' device, but would have some use. Cost: 25M
I'll stop the post at here for now, see which of these ideas may grow legs, and expand upon them individually at a later date. Feel free to add your own ideas!
Gambler
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Post by Arizhel on Aug 18, 2010 13:34:06 GMT -5
Cross training isn't really something I'm willing to back at this point. I'd rather put in new skills more in line with our current classes (a poultice or bandage skill for noncasting classes, for example). These skills could possibly have material components that cost gold. Also, we already have flee without exp loss -- retreat. If we need to change the mechanics on it, that's another issue entirely.  Regarding the phrenologist, what's to stop someone from simply buying a perfect character? Hmm. We're discussing a casino zone already, actually. Portals is something I've considered. Some of the other items do look interesting. However, the gold costs seem... rather low when compared with the benefits. Realistically, I don't think these are things we have to worry about newbies affording. In fact, we really shouldn't worry about that at all. These are end-game style additions that will nonetheless give gold some actual value. I do like some of the ideas though. |
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Mal
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Posts: 231
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Post by Mal on Aug 18, 2010 17:27:49 GMT -5
Let the Gold Rush begin!
1.) Allow players to spend gold on some things in Arcadia. Stuff like cheap in-game loading equipment, low level mobs, furnishings.
2.) Using dgscripts, create mercenaries that players can spend money on hiring, example would be hiring a cleric bot. I can write the script(s) if approved.
3.) Nienna was a great idea, and I think has really helped in extracting sums of gold from the game. It might be neat to have two Nienna-like mobs that change regularly. Have one wandering the mud randomly in search of artifacts.
4.) Buy potions that will grant imm+ spell level results (super inspire..!)
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Rox
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Post by Rox on Aug 18, 2010 17:50:48 GMT -5
I really like the gold idea. While the prices on items are debatable, it will definitely makes gold desirable again and tip the balance on mud economy. I used to play a mud where warriors were allowed to hone their sword to make it sharper and thus increases the damage or hitroll of a weapon. While the warrior class may be limited to adding damage, the tinker can perhaps help with a fee to say add bolt from +4dam to +5dam while maintaining dice. Although with greater weapons, there is also a need to have bigger mobs. Think this is probably in the works with some of the new zones but even with existing mobs, tweaks can be done. (Maybe a bit out of topic here....) I've suggested this and will suggest again to fix philo so that it's not broken for a fee minor detail I know. How about chars being able to buy Perma HP/Mana/Move. Price on this would be high, say 10M/point or something capping at 30. So, to get additional hp/mana/move will cost someone 900M. Thanks for looking into this...very exciting. |
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Post by Arizhel on Aug 18, 2010 18:06:34 GMT -5
Let the Gold Rush begin! 1.) Allow players to spend gold on some things in Arcadia. Stuff like cheap in-game loading equipment, low level mobs, furnishings. 2.) Using dgscripts, create mercenaries that players can spend money on hiring, example would be hiring a cleric bot. I can write the script(s) if approved. I really like these two ideas, actually. Dg scripts, incidentally, aren't going in until 6.1. Just a heads up there. Mmmmmm. I can see possibilities about changing how the mobs work in the Arcadia rules, at least as far as low level ones are concerned. I think that was the part of it that I was the least happy with. |
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Post by gambler on Aug 19, 2010 1:51:13 GMT -5
The 'suggested' fees for various upgrades are merely that. However, I think most people's idea of 'gold' may be far different from the handful of players that have heaping amounts. It was mentioned 'What would keep one from just buying a perfect character?'. In fact that is the point. If someone rolls up a 7 to perfect character (21 points to perf) and wants to pay 525 MILLION for perfection, then so be it. I doubt it would be used in this way, but for those of us that have actually run gold, it's faster to peel off the 7 remorts than to delve out that kind of gold. The saying goes that 'time is money'. A good player can run 7 remorts in 140 hours of game time. To KEEP pace on gold running, that same player must run 3M gold per hour (which is in fact exceptional. Either way you look at it, you can't hardly say that the spend isn't justified or wasn't earned.
Retreat only works if your not tanking. If you try and retreat while tanking you receive the message: 'You can't slip away'. Flee without xp loss is important and needed for classes like thief that rely on backstab (and sometimes flee if they miss initially).
It is essential, that whatever is decided, we don't just pick one or two options and run with it. Even someone with say... one billion gold would REALLY have to pick and choose how they want to develop their character base. It would be literally impossible to afford everything on this list (even for just a single character). Half of these options aren't really upgrades, just alternative means to the same end. The few that really are upgrades are by no means 'game-changers', but more like conveniences.
Keep in mind ALL of these options can come with limitations. As an example (cross-training):
Double-fire (two spells/skills per round) could come at additional penalty to mana, hitpoint, or move consumption (or all three). I envisioned it as more of a mana-burn. Sure you could quake twice in one round, but instead of 60 mana... you burn up 80. The overall effectiveness of putting such a skill in play should be tested, but it would unlikely beat out running things slow and steady. We'll continue to discuss for another week or so, then I'd like to take some polling on the different items mentioned.
I like Rox's idea of being able to purchase hp/mana/move points (with a set max), as well as the ability to upgrade a weapon past it's norm. Hiring a 'mercenary cleric' seems interesting enough. I'd assume that they would have mana limitations and have to regen just like the rest of us? I'd love to hear the expanded idea on that.
Gambler.
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Rox
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Post by Rox on Aug 19, 2010 7:24:00 GMT -5
Just wanted to add a cross training spell to warrior...."Cure blind" Dawned on me this morning as I see..... A High Priest utters the words, 'noselacri'. Blinded and no other morts in sight hehehe |
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Post by Arizhel on Aug 19, 2010 8:46:26 GMT -5
Retreat only works if your not tanking. If you try and retreat while tanking you receive the message: 'You can't slip away'. Flee without xp loss is important and needed for classes like thief that rely on backstab (and sometimes flee if they miss initially). I'm well aware of this. It hasn't been *that* long since I morted.  Hence why I said we can probably just change the functionality on it. |
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Mal
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Post by Mal on Aug 19, 2010 15:44:28 GMT -5
1. Since we already have hp/mana/move bonuses being manually handled (see the current lottery) it might be a handy to change it so could be handled by the code. I like the idea of being able to buy mana/moves/hp up to a certain maximum. 2. We could introduce equipment degradation over time requiring the player to pay to repair their equipment. Skills could be created so the player could repair their own equipment at a forge [add forge to Arcadia options ] which would require gold. Armor could temporarily lose AC until repaired, Weapons could lose damage dice. With this change, the players could at a cost, and with sufficient skill, overrepair their armor/weapons to boost the damage on their weapons or AC on their armor. 3. Expanded Cleric Bot Mercenary - A dgscript could be created that will allow a player to trigger the cleric bot to heal, sanc, armor, etc. (spells & spell level to be determined.) - A dgscript could potentially be created so the bot would automatically heal the target player if he is low on hp but not entirely sure if this is the right thing to do depending on how the mana works. - The cleric bot would act similar to a player, set the max mana according to its level, and let the bot regen same as a player. If the player triggers the cleric bot to cast a spell on him, the bot will execute the spell if it has enough mana. The cleric bot would only answer to the commands from one player. So another player could not trigger the cleric bot even if its leader is lying mortally wounded on the ground. A player could hire different levels of cleric bots depending on how much gold the player is willing to part with. |
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Simba
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Post by Simba on Aug 25, 2010 15:16:54 GMT -5
Re: Clericbot
Here's a wacky idea: How about people playing cleric actually cleric? Crazy, I know right? I think bots would not be a good idea.
Let me kick out an old idea, how about for say 2m a practice can be used as a hp/mv/mana point? This may help balance some of the classes that get screwed on skills/spells.
Repairing eq is a pain in the ass. Just another time consuming thing. I played this on another mud.
I think the equipment upgrade idea has potential but the costs may need to be discussed. There should also be some new common weapons set up that you can only buy hit/dam dice, maxing at whatever. This vs a mage enchanting. So as a newbie grows they can add to their weapon of choice.
How about random days there is a quest token exchange,1-5m a quest point? This would go both ways you could buy tokens or exchange tokens for money. The market would change so you could buy tokens for 5m one day then 1m another. Or receive 1-5m for a token.
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Post by ching on Aug 26, 2010 14:46:41 GMT -5
*snip* As an example (cross-training): Double-fire (two spells/skills per round) could come at additional penalty to mana, hitpoint, or move consumption (or all three). I envisioned it as more of a mana-burn. Sure you could quake twice in one round, but instead of 60 mana... you burn up 80. The overall effectiveness of putting such a skill in play should be tested, but it would unlikely beat out running things slow and steady. We'll continue to discuss for another week or so, then I'd like to take some polling on the different items mentioned. *snip* Gambler. Well I would vote that a 'double fire' spell would cost just a bit more than a normal version of the spell. You are paying the penalty for more damage in one round. I know of a lot of situations were if you can only cast 1 spell and then lag 3 rounds you die, but if you can cast 2 (say quakes) you would live because they would all die. So instead of a 60mana spell, you would cast it twice for say 2.2 times (so 132 mana.) |
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Post by gambler on Aug 28, 2010 10:05:41 GMT -5
Good ideas so far. I think 'more' options is better here. It creates diversity as people decide how to further develop their characters. Does everyone think we should take the individual ideas out to their own discussion topic board at this point? I'll recap the ideas and clarify a few questions in my final post here: Cross-training: Needs a separate discussion board. Intruiging and useful, but some concern with regurgitation and limiting uniqueness of individual classes. Priority: HIGH Purchasable modifyers (stat): Can be decided by the implementation team solely, but certainly would provide a benefit (at a fair price) to the mud populace. Casino zone: Seems like its already at least 'being discussed'. Maybe someone should volunteer to tackle this zone? Rentable Portals: An interesting concept, It would need to be something that there could only be a SET number of walkthrough gates (and rentable 'end portals') in game. The big question would be IF it is sole use only, or if you can drag a group through. This likely needs its own discussion board. Nienna: This is a great idea, and I think has been well-used, but I think everyone agrees that Nienna should be more 'random' and have more options available to purchase. She could enter the game on a more random basis (like the Questing Beast), instead of just loading equipment at a new uptime. Insurance: I really think this is a no-brainer. It's been a frustration that has been 'the straw that broke the camel's back' for MANY MANY old schoolers. We should be happy to sell them a piece of paper for a few dozen million gold coins!! Upgradeable Equipment: One of the hotter topics on here. I will post some starting points for general rules, maxes/mins, once I have run it by Arizhel. Most certainly the weapon firing could be both exciting and wildly entertaining!! Gold/Token exchange: I really like this idea, but the price needs to be set in stone, and not moveable. Otherwise, people will play the game of exchanging up on subsequent uptimes at different pricing. BARDS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE!! There should be a 5% exchange cost regardless, or its really not a money maker. Rentable Mercenaries: I like this idea only to the extent that it's tough to get a xp group up at times. Unfortunately, this will be used by single players to reset equipment solo if you layer too many available spells/skills into the mercenaries. It has to be kept 'simple'. I think the rentable characters need to have a max level no higher than 20, keeping the spells/skills/powers/stats in check. Super 'Pots': This is a cool idea and could be very easily implemented. I'd like a 10 glow sanct though!! Purchasable hp/mana/moves: I think this is certainly worth considering. At 10M per POINT, its fairly expensive, and has boundaries. I'd suggest maxing the add cap at 25 points for each, as this is closer to one standard deviation away from 'norm'. This should be discussed further on a separate post. Equipment degradation: Don't like it, and yes, it is an annoyance on other muds. I could see it for lower level equipment and gear, but in no way, should a magical piece of equipment be falling apart, especially considering the layers of polish I put on them daily! Double-Fire on Spells: Ching stated it exactly as I meant it to be. There is ADDITIONAL penalty for attempting to fire 2 spells in one round. As an example: first color spray fired (20), 2nd color spray fired (30). Another way to handle this is to have a toggle (like the sohei skills) that allow mana to 'tick down' at a moderate rate, for as long as you are firing twice per round. Something like this could be easily done. Thanks for all the great input!! Gambler |
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Mal
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Post by Mal on Aug 31, 2010 15:47:29 GMT -5
Comment on mercenaries:
You could allow one character to have a maximum of one mercenary at any given time. This would prevent a player from renting an eq group.
You could give mercenaries only a subset of skills/spells.
You could make the level of mercenary that you can hire based on your level.
You could add a skill/benefit for classes to be able to attract a bit better mercenaries.
Unfortunately, a mob hitting a tanking mercenary will switch at random at hit the player leading the mercenary.
Comment on bonus hp/mana/moves being purchased:
I realize that the main intent of this is to find more uses for the mounds of gold in the game. This would not fit perfectly within that realm, but...what if we used spare practice sessions to boost hp/mana or moves by 1 point.
I like this a lot but it does not help deal with excess gold.
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Post by ching on Aug 31, 2010 18:05:58 GMT -5
*snip* Death Trap Insurance: I really think this is a nobrainer. It's been a frustration that has been 'the straw that broke the camel's back' for MANY MANY old schoolers. We should be happy to sell them a piece of paper for a few dozen million gold coins!! *snip* Gambler There is a new piece of eq in the game, which will do all of this. *not yet in the current code* this will be a version +6.x working item. 1) *# [ 824] a get out of DT free card vstat o 824 Name: 'a get out of DT free card', Aliases: dt card free Number in game: 1 Number loaded: 0 Number in rent: 6 Version: 1 VNum: [ 824], RNum: [ 239], Type: TREASURE, SpecProc: None L-Des: A bright yellow card has been thrown to the floor here. Extra descs: dt card free Can be worn on: TAKE HOLD Set char bits : NOBITS Extra flags : QUEST LIMITED Weight: 1, Value: 50000, Cost/day: 0, Timer: 0 Min Lev: 0, Max Lev: 0 In room: Nowhere, In object: None, Carried by: Nobody Values 0-3: [0] [0] [0] [0] Equipment Status: None Affections: +3 to DAMROLL, +3 to HITROLL ****************** As you can see it is a standard +3,+3 holdable, BUT if you hit a Death Trap, it relocates you to your recall place, WITH your eq (no loss) THEN it removes itself from your equipment/inventory list. *repeat* The item is in the game, but it does not yet work. Expect it to be working in version 6.x Now, how people obtain them (quest only at this point) should be a thread by itself. I could see these going for many millions. Who would not want to have one? |
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