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Grapple
Aug 12, 2010 7:19:01 GMT -5
Post by Arizhel on Aug 12, 2010 7:19:01 GMT -5
Alright. So you've probably read in the 6.0 thread that we're planning on finally fixing grapple so that it works correctly. Don't worry! We understand that many things are going to have to be done in order to offset it, and have no intention of leaving you with many mobs being impossible to kill. I personally intend to evaluate the procs on mobs. However, this can't be done until we have an idea of where we're going with the grapple fix. Do you have any suggestions? Leaving it alone isn't an option, btw.
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Rox
Full Member
Posts: 195
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Grapple
Aug 12, 2010 13:06:26 GMT -5
Post by Rox on Aug 12, 2010 13:06:26 GMT -5
Just my 0.02 again
Think the intent of grapple from the group was to prevent a few procs from the mob: Throw - Ninja class can prevent this now Area spell/target spell - possibly a mage with mage shield (reduces spell damage on group by using the mage mana) Pzar - No class now has skills to prevent this apart from fumble on !stepping mob, maybe a could have a skill when in battle to prevent mob from Pzar Stepping mob - how to debuff mobs without them stepping? (A specific class could have a skill that can be used in combat)
There could be other procs - but just throwing a few that I remember.
If we want to make it a way that a multi class group can kill the mob without killing the whole group, classes have to have special skills to prevent that.
Thanks Rox
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Mal
Full Member
Posts: 231
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Grapple
Aug 12, 2010 15:53:47 GMT -5
Post by Mal on Aug 12, 2010 15:53:47 GMT -5
Some ideas:
Paladin: group-effect of rolling each members save roll twice instead of just himself. Mage: counter-spell which will completely block a mob's spell Sohei: magic-shield which will reduce all magic spells against the party by 50% Thief, Warrior, AntiPaladin, Ninja: opportunist whenever a mob pzar/heals, the player gets a free swing against the mob Jedi can catch thrown players using their mind, costs mana
Skill: everytime a mob pzar's the player steals some of that mana/hp for themselves
I know this is even crazier: but give mobs mana and let them run out of mana... create skills/spells that will help drain the mana faster...
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Grapple
Aug 12, 2010 21:16:06 GMT -5
Post by Arizhel on Aug 12, 2010 21:16:06 GMT -5
I LIKE THESE IDEAS! Rawr, keep 'em comin'!
The following content is pulled from the discussion we were having on the admin list:
Here's a list of existing skills we could possibly use:
Kick Bash Pound Pummel Throw (this has interesting possibilities, actually) Backstab Circle Hurl Stun Touch Iron Fist Eagle Claw Nerveshock
There are various spells we could use, too Curse Blindness Poison Confusion (this has interesting possibilities...)
Also suggested for new skills: Trip (for thieves) Some way to prevent the mob from unaffecting itself.
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antrus
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Grapple
Aug 27, 2010 13:11:34 GMT -5
Post by antrus on Aug 27, 2010 13:11:34 GMT -5
I LIKE THESE IDEAS! Rawr, keep 'em comin'! The following content is pulled from the discussion we were having on the admin list: Here's a list of existing skills we could possibly use: Kick Bash Pound Pummel Throw (this has interesting possibilities, actually) Backstab Circle Hurl Stun Touch Iron Fist Eagle Claw Nerveshock There are various spells we could use, too Curse Blindness Poison Confusion (this has interesting possibilities...) Also suggested for new skills: Trip (for thieves) Some way to prevent the mob from unaffecting itself. To prevent mobs from stepping forward would be the job of a thief or ninja in my opinion. Change stun/disarm to cause this or give them a "trap" or some kind of ability that locks the mob in place(allowing other procs to continue or this just becomes a new grapple).
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Saviour
New Member
The only thing I ever ask of you, gotta promise not to stop when I say when...
Posts: 30
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Grapple
Mar 27, 2011 12:31:32 GMT -5
Post by Saviour on Mar 27, 2011 12:31:32 GMT -5
Old post, but thought I'd weigh in on it. I'd love to see mages get a chance to become useful to a big mob eq group. Someone else has already put out the idea of an auto-spell to allow mages to shield the group from damage. Going one step further, perhaps make it act not unlike a reflection spell, where the casting mob takes some percentage of damage from the reflection of said spell? You can either make it a single use spell, one reflection causes shield to break down, or only allow it to last a very short period, one or two ticks. Utilizing ninja and/or thieves to prevent a mob from stepping forward would also be a nifty idea. Ninja's already have throw. Perhaps alter it a bit so that, when the mob makes an attempt to step forward, the ninja firmly plants his palm in the mobs chest and shoves him back. Bring the thief into the mix and allow him to circle behind the mob whilst he is off-balance. Similar to the stun/circle combo, but could be an auto-proc. I dunno...just shooting from the hip.
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Grapple
Apr 2, 2011 13:20:08 GMT -5
Post by Austinpowers on Apr 2, 2011 13:20:08 GMT -5
I like! I am only a single vote, but I am all for making the classes together forming a powerful entity in battle.
I hope that we as admin, can provide a gaming atmosphere that all will really enjoy soon!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Grapple
Apr 11, 2011 11:57:43 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 11:57:43 GMT -5
As it sits currently, I cannot see doing anything to play with grapple. You currently have a whole slew of mob procs that will make it damn near impossible to kill mobs that load higher end eq. I can completely understand wanting to make more classes into a group to run equipment. However since you added resist mag on most mobs to prevent squadding, something will have to be looked at there if you wish to include mages in these groups. Soheis have their own special abilities while teamed up with a cleric. Jedi's are also almost untouchable in combat. Paladins and Antipaladins however are lacking. Maybe if we wanted to get real slick about this we could use align-type procs to defend/resist entropy. Like Siawyn for example would need an opposite align to refute his entropy. All this while ninjas stop the throw/slam or stepping, while thieves circle around their unsuspecting target. However, with all these resist phys/resist mag/reflect magic it will make it darn near impossible to run, and extremely disheartening.
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Grapple
May 15, 2011 15:20:33 GMT -5
Post by Dank on May 15, 2011 15:20:33 GMT -5
Game play design is an industry, and I probably could write a book about early attempts to implement AD&D (Gygax) in round-based melee simulation, of which JediMUD is a part.
In short, I think the major design "flaw" of this particular melee implementation rests in the massive hit point differential in between mob and character. For example, a high-lev mob/player HP differential is about 30:1, vs. 5:1 for MMOs. JediMUD relies heavily on a tank-based melee model, (requiring frequent short-round healing), where the loss of a heavily buffed/protected combatant usually results in the destruction of the party.
Instead of using temporal modifiers (stacking bonuses, stacking buffs) to prosecute combat, the implementation of deck building to simulate chance, the implementation of casting failure, the implementation of other spell interaction, casting order and other mechanisms as exhibited by popular GUI MMOs, like WoW or Wizard101, JediMUD has continued to band-aid an attempt at melee AI over the years, adding such things as toss, purge, step, etc., to combat an ever sophisticated player-base.
The grapple chain is just another symptom of how broken the melee AI is here at JediMUD. Instead, I would scrap the entire melee engine and implement the sort of system you see in WoW or Wizard101.
But then again, these systems are sophisticated BECAUSE of their GUIs... and since this is, after all a text MUD, this entire topic direction is moot.
Therefore, long and short, I completely agree with Despair: it would simply require too much time to fix the flawed melee engine, the very basis of the game, which, as it happens, is simply a glorified Moo with some nifty weapons.
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Grapple
May 15, 2011 19:21:05 GMT -5
Post by Austinpowers on May 15, 2011 19:21:05 GMT -5
Actually, its not that hard to change it. If I thought about it just like the combat_list, I would set up a list that is based on order of command received. Then the spell/skill etc would come into play.
Now Full out Melee, is doable. I would personally do Event based combat, based on the heartbeat, then allow speed/agility/skill play a roll. Meaning encumbrance would play some small roll, then allowing for interaction of spells. I have put some thought into this, but it would take time to adapt.
This is just hypothetical of course.
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Thf
New Member
Posts: 49
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Post by Thf on Mar 5, 2015 5:48:01 GMT -5
There are honestly more mob procedures than you can shake a stick at. What would be interesting is for other classes to have up more proc counter-skills to include all classes in the grand scheme of progression. It's still warrior/cleric mud when it comes to snatching the forbidden fruit of the realm. It's impossible to take down many powerful mobs unless you have 2 grapplers plus a backup.
There doesnt have to be a catch-all skill like grapple. Scrap that and think about legitimate class revisions.
Procedure Counter-skill Examples: Magic users disintegrate could be integrated to prevent target mobile's magic from being cast every three rounds. Thief class prevent janitors and pickpockets procs from firing. Jedi class conceal the presence of everyone in the room from agressive mobiles and mobiles with memory. Paladins protect the group from receiving breath damage. Antipaladins dispel sanctuary with their dark sword.
For every one procedure a mob can fire should equal how many class skills we require to tackle the beast. Scrap grapple down to only preventing a mob from fleeing battle. Balance is what battle needs here to make all classes apart of the grand scheme of death.
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